Talk of the Sound has learned that Bally Total Fitness at New Roc City will close its doors for good on Friday June 26th. Members are being referred to Bally Total Fitness Customer Service for further information. Members can call 888-210-4725.
UPDATE: I called the customer service number and was put on hold for 22 minutes. When a customer service representative picked up the phone, I explained that I was calling from a local news web site in New Rochelle, NY working on a story about the closing of the New Rochelle, NY facility. I told them I had called the local facility in New Rochelle to get information about the closing of the facility and how they would handle contracts and was referred to the customer service number. The person told me to hold on and I was put on hold again, this time for 8 minutes. He then came back and told me was transferring me to the “media line”. I was then put on hold again, this time for 8 minutes. The person who picked up said they were an operator and that “this office” was only marketing. They told me media relations was in Chicago and I was given a switchboard number for what I was told was headquarters: 773-380-3000. I asked for media relations and was sent to a voice mail for Karen “Peckis” (sic). I left a voice mail.
From beginning to end this amounted to 45 minutes during which I spoke to three different people in two different locations and was on hold for 97% of the time. If this is there idea of “customer service” and “media relations”, it’s no wonder Bally’s Total Fitness has a terrible reputation. Quite frankly, given what I read on the Consumer Affairs web site I am surprised anyone joins their gyms.
UPDATE: I never heard back from Bally’s PR person but Aman Ali did and the Journal News has some more information. Bally’s says it is closing the location as part of its effort to come out of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. New Rochelle is the only such closure in New York State for the national fitness club chain. Bally’s spokesperson says they will “work with” members who recently signed contracts and do not to accept conversion of their contracts to “national” memberships.
The gym was popular among city employees, including Kathy Reilly, who has been going there since it opened in 1999. She said hearing about Bally’s closing came as a surprise.
“I just renewed my membership, and they never said anything to me about them closing,” Reilly said.
When asked if customers can get their money back from existing memberships, Larsen said “We will work with them accordingly.”
Read the entire JN article here.
bally closing
the real reason is likely loss of lease given the fact that the renovation of new roc center — with incoming stores, target and kohls, — and whatever else —- cappelli’s organization let this out of the bag over a year ago.
anyway, good opportunity to join AXON. If you do, say warren gross sent you and I will use your referral as leverage to get a cash donation to habitat for humanity.
warren gross
If it’s a recent contract within (I believe) 30 days
If it’s a recent contract within (I believe) 30 days, you should be able to get out of it if u have used the gym at least (I believe) 15 times within those 30day (or something like that). If you read the contract (and I wish I had my own in front of me) there is a loop hole that lets u cancel. I had a chance to cancel (wish I’d taken it). Read the terms for cancelation if you signed up recently. It’s a hassle and a half, because you have to write a letter in specific words stating how many times you’ve gone…yada yada… and that you’re not satisfied with the gym over all. Also, if u signed up for the contract that is NOT nationwide, you should be able to get out of that as well. If your contract says that you joined to use The NR gym and they are closing down – DO NOT SETTLE FOR THE UPGRADE TO NATIONWIDE – (unless you don’t mind driving to Yonkers(sucks), Bronx(too crowded), or Port Chester). I wish I knew how deceiving Ballys were before I signed up. If u have to get a copy of your contract from California (as much of a hassle as they are) do so, it’s worth the wait. Take your contract to a lawyer so that they can over look it. YOU CAN GET OUT OF IT, on some terms and Ballys will try to guide you otherwise. Good luck to all.
Wolf
Bally’s Membership Cancellation
I have been a Bally’s member since Aug. 08 and was locked into a 3 year contract of $38.35 per month. When I read the blog and heard about the gym closing, I called my credit card. They would not interfere with my contract.
I called Bally’s at the 1-888-210-4725 number yesterday and could not get through. I called today and it took quite a while, but left the phone on speaker and did other things here at home. Finally someone picked up from California. Agent #186 tried to convince me to use the Manhattan locations that have raquet ball, etc. She offered 6 free months, etc. I was nice to her and told her that I walk to the gym and would not be able to go to these other gyms. Finally, she said she would stop my auto debit and I was glad, but I still wanted cancellation.
I had to call the cancellation department 1-866-402-2559 and was on hold for at least 15 minutes. I spoke to Yolanda (agent #6400) and she finally said she would send me a letter in 5-6 days of my cancellation. I will blog post when I get the letter. Hopefully, it is all done. The Bally’s staff on the phone seemed very nice and said a number of gyms have closed nationwide and they had no notice either.
Bally’s has been a lot of fun for me. The clientelle has high energy and vitality. The staff has always been good and the classes challenging and packed. The personal fitness people were friendly and helpful. The facility was clean and well taken care of. I will miss Bally’s New Rochelle.
I wouldn’t count on a cancellation
I believe that all Bally contracts contain a clause that says you can only cancel for medical reasons with a doctors note or if there isn’t another Bally’s location within 25 miles of where you live. Since the Port Chester, Fordham and Co-op city Bally’s are within that radius, I don’t think they will cancel your contract. They will give you the run around and make promises but will ultimately continue to charge your credit card. Report your credit card lost and get a new one issued with a new number. But Bally’s will use legal recourse against you…..Please keep us posted…good luck.
Bally Letter
So earlier in the week I received a letter from Bally’s. It was a “We were unsuccessful in processing your scheduled monthly dues paymnet through your designated account” letter. So I guess they DID turn off the automated billing, which is good, but still have me on the hook for the monthly fees despite them telling me on the phone that my membership was cancelled. So I sent a follow up email and got the following email back.
I am not sure which way to go. Maybe it would be cheaper to pay the $4 month for two years to satisfy my 3 year committment. Or should I do the option to truly cancel and send a written letter?
Here is the email:
Thank you for contacting Bally Total Fitness.
We sincerely apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused. We do appreciate your patronage with Bally Total Fitness. Listed below are the options you have to either continue with your membership or cancel it.
Alternatives:
1.) You may transfer your membership to a family or friend that may live closer to a Bally Total Fitness facility with no transfer fee. (i.e. Gift)
2.) To protect your membership investment, you may renew your account under our “inactive” option, at $4.00 per month. To be eligible for this option, your account must be current and paid in full. Prior to making any payments, please reply directly to this e-mail with the exact number of months that you would like to be inactive, so that we may set-up the account accordingly.
You may pay the “inactive status” fee through our web site at http://www.ballyfitness.com or pay by credit card through our automated renewal line at 1-800-344-7030, seven days a week, 24 hours a day. You may also call our Member Services renewal line at (866) 402-2559. Alternatively, if you wish to mail a check or money order, you may mail your payment to: Bally Total Fitness P.O. Box 1070, Norwalk, CA 90651.
3.) We appreciate the fact you did originally choose Bally Total Fitness as your primary fitness facility. As such, in order to continue your membership and protect your initial investment, we will provide you with a free 6 month extension towards your membership.
4.) You may submit your written cancellation request directly to our Cancellation Department by using the contact information shown below. Please include your membership account number along with all correspondence.
Bally Total Fitness
Attention: Cancellation Department
P.O. Box 1080
Norwalk, CA 90651
Fax: (562) 484-2442 / (562) 484-2444 / (562) 484-2445
Sincerely,
L. Paz
Member Support Center Associate
Bally Total Fitness
http://www.Ballyfitness.com
Your Total Fitness Resource
switch to inactive and THEN dispute
Seems to me that if you can switch now to the $4/mo option you should to avoid running up further costs. If you lose your dispute with them at least you are on the hook for far less money.
From what I read on the web about Bally’s they will TELL YOU anything on the phone you want to hear but will only honor what is in writing. So, like anything, get your cancellation in writing or be prepared to get the run around.
Sent Bally a Check
So I mailed Bally’s a check for $4 a month for the balance of my months and sent an email to that effect. I also faxed the letter and copy of the check. I thought that paying the $4 a month would be a safe alternative to paying more. Then they sent me back the following email, let’s see what happens next:
Thank you for contacting Bally Total Fitness.
Please be advised, our records indicate your membership has already been canceled due to the club closure. A refund in the amount of $93.95 is currently pending. Please allow up to 14 business days to complete the transaction.
Sincerely,
L. Paz
Member Support Center Associate
Bally Total Fitness
http://www.Ballyfitness.com
Your Total Fitness Resource
Web Speaks to Ballys reputation
Having done a Google web search for Ballys and Ballys New Rochelle the results show vast numbers of complaints.
In addition it shows a filing that says that Ballys knew it was closing its doors some time back in February. If that is correct and true then deceptive sales practices were being applied by their sales department. Selling memberships when you know you are closing a location for that location I am sure is a violation of NY State Consumer laws. With that said we are dealing with a few issues.
a- Ballys has been selling memberships in bad faith.
b- They did this willfully and with utter disregard for better business practices.
c-They have violated NY State Laws Mr. Cuomo please step in here now.
d-What does this say for the further decay of both New Roc City and Downtown New Rochelle.
The overall picture is pretty ugly!!!
Deception
My daughter purchased a membership on 5-26-09 she is a college student back home for the summer. They made zero mention of this to her when she signed up. She was going month to month due to her need to return to school at the end of August. I called Ballys and they turned me over to their national office. They were not much help and were not interested in us cancelling our month to month. They suggested she try and work at @ Bay Plaza or Yonkers. This is not very convienant. So far we have asked our Credit Card company to dispute these charges, have sent a complaint to Andrew Cuomo’s office and will begin a small claims action should they not comply with NY State pretty tight health club cancelation laws. Its tough to support busines in New Rochelle under these circumstances.
My son was affected by the Ice Rink Closure but who would have figured New Roc would get me again.
Bally’s
I am a member of Bally’s so i am not happy about this either but please not that Bally’s closing has nothing to do with the City of New Rochelle and how it does business. This is strictly a Bally’s decision. Health clubs are hurting and Bally’s has never really been on solid footing. This is different issue than the ice rink.
It happened to me also in NYC when Crunch closed its doors overnight with no warning.
Who mentioned the City government?
The only person raising anything about how the City of New Rochelle does business is you, Anon.
Thats the line that was
Thats the line that was being responded too.
You alsways got to put your 2 cents in. Just post the comments super slueth.
Its tough to support busines in New Rochelle under these circumstances.My son was affected by the Ice Rink Closure but who would have figured New Roc would get me again.
It has EVERYTHING to do with how City of NR does business
This is the perfect example of poor strategy in planning and how it collapses under it’s own weight. Sweetheart deals to developers, combined with courting of flagship enterprises to serve a personal view of how it should be rather than a pragmatic, intelligent evaluation ot the city’s potential with regards to being best, not necessarily biggest, will always cause a roller coaster effect on the economy as opposed to steady, sustainable growth. The current track of planning offers the worst of both worlds rather than the best of both in terms of population and economic growth. The future of NR is being laid out by puppies, not seasoned leaders. Get used to it or get involved.
And who are you and how are
And who are you and how are you involved. A business that has been at New Roc since inception has failed and will close its doors. Bally’s is at fault.
Now if you came at me with the argument as to why Capellei would put in a NY Sports Club to compete with Bally’s your argument would hold weight.
Whats at fault
Cappelli built New Roc City as an entertainment project. Turned out the element it brought in was not what the City was looking for. This became evident on the day of the so called Easter Riot!!!
Cappelli then says on TV and in the papers ” As a Divorced Father I am a huge fan of entertainment places. In Fact Dave and Busters is a place I take my own kids.” Later that year the direction changes as its going to be the home of Target and Kohls
Then Cappelli proceeds to close the Ice Rink!! This is the same rink that was promised to the NR School District prior to the building of New Roc City…Seems to make more sense to close the Rink the day you are set to build the Target and Kohls.
They closed a Rink that was not a cause of their entertainment problems as there were zero incidents @ the Rink requiring POLICE visits. The same could not be said for the rest of New Roc, which by the way has a New Rochelle Police Station on premises with 100 of camera’s and off duty POLICE working in uniform so called moonlighting on Private Property.
Now Lou Cappelli and the used Car Salesman Joseph Apicella now are reconfiguring New Roc the same New Roc Lou Cappelli was fashioning after Dave and Busters his personal favorite to RETAIL EXTRAVAGANZA.
TARGET,KOHLS and rumors of reconfiguring all without any lease signed. I welcome anyone to CALL Targets and Kohls corporate office and ask this question “are you expanding to New Rochelle with locations at New Roc City?” There are no leases nor any future plans. Otherwise Apicella show us your lease!
Ballys itself is a badly run Health Club, at least The New York Sports Club knows what it is doing and they also at least follow consumer laws and guidelines where it pertains to health club memberships.
So we have a few problems here. We have a property partially owned and run by a guy without a plan. Yes the circa 1976 graduate of Iona Prep the guy with the bad haircut and glasses who has zero idea what to do with this project. We have a City administration with no plan either as they keep using the same developer as their means of saving downtown New Rochelle. When you package this all up in a good or bad economy we have a the ingredients for many more years of a decaying downtown and blight. Meantime even as New Roc struggles and Trump Cappelli remains virtually empty we have the same 4 idiots approving LeCount Square as if that is going to resolve the cadre of problems. So if you want to know whats at fault you owe it to the same 4 Politicians handing the keys to the same developer. Its a bore don’t you think!!!
Maybe Tara Rosenblum should look into Mr Capelli and Apicella
She has a knack for getting to the bottom of things. No doubt, her “in depth” action will “get a rise” out of at least one of them. (maybe both). Maybe a stakeout at one of his apartments, to see what’s going on. What do you think Tara, are you up for it ?
No need to be coy
Apicella and Tara Rosenblum are dating. They don’t hide it. She’s been to social events and had her picture in the Wag on his arm. He’s introduced her as his girlfriend. As long as she doesn’t report on issues involving Apicella or his company, there’s nothing wrong with it.
Apicella is an ass and they
Apicella is an ass and they deserve each other.
Who am I ? Who are you ?
It doesn’t really matter anon guy. It’s the viewpoint that is at issue. You can take ANY incident/event and totally isolate it to hyperfocus the reasons for success or failure. That’s ridiculous though because nothing exists in a vacuum. If you had an ounce of insight you would see that Bally’s business acumen isn’t the issue. The property was pushed through by someone who had their own vision about what would make the most money for himself and he sold it to a council that doesn’t have the savy to enter projects of this scope or with the understanding of the ramifications of their size. Mr Capelli extolled the virtues of “entertainment” facilities while he was selling them, now, the focus is retail(because entertainment was quick and less involved and made the most money for him, not in the best interest of a master plan for the city.) He then sells Lecount, but in the process tells the council there will need to be more floors than originally planned to make it a success. For who? Him or the city. If you pull your headout to look at the big picture, you’ll see there isn’t one. There is a mindset of “do something- even if it’s wrong” among and you have to ask yourself on any project”Who does it benefit? Tax abatements, PILOT programs, Shumer strongarming the post office (which is really us, the citizens, making another contribution to subsidize the developer) to “sacrifice” for the good of New Rochelle (why doesn’t Capelli sacrifice a tax abatement)projects that don’t meet the conditions of their PILOT and never return any clawback, property taxes continue to rise, no help to schools from sales taxes so school taxes outpace the city budget. You tell me, who benefits? I am all citizens who have had it – THAT’S who I am. Who are YOU
You are a malcontent thats who you are
I read these post but as always just get whats wrong and nothing as to how to fix it. Since you speak for all the citizens of New Rochelle tell me your master plan. Where do you start? What do you do?
I am sure you will be very vaugue in your ideas and will start with stop the abatements to developers because that is your rallying cry. I do not like giving awaythe store either but tell me what kind of development, if you want development, will help. New Ro needs an infusion otherwise our property taxes are going to go through the roof. How do we get back on our feet. Sit idly like we did for 30 years or be aggressive. The ecomonic downturn paints a picture of gloom in regards to anything on the board.
Seriously, this not an atogonistic response, I would like to hear the options. It is a one sided debate when only the city council talks. As a citizen offer some ideas and if they are good ones I will be the first in line to back them up. But so far I have nothing from you other than I should hate Cappelli and my City Council. That is not the way to create a master plan.
No one speaks for all of New Rochelle
And just because someone raises a concern does not obligate them to devise a master plan for New Rochelle. If you want a considered reply then why not write a considered comment. You say this is NOT an antagonistic response? I would say your own words belie this claim. That said, why not have a discussion here rather than engage in this sort of heated rhetoric.
I think you can support development in downtown New Rochelle and not think that building a 50 story tower is a good idea. I think you can support development in the South End and still want to know more about how what a large influx of families will mean for Trinity and other South End schools that are already bursting at the seams. I think you can support development and be worried that we now have three buildings that are so tall that we do not have enough firefighters to respond in the event of a high rise fire. I think you can support development and not necessarily believe everything you are told by a real estate developer.
That unscrupulous real estate developers would take advantage of local governments or work with local governments to take advantage of residents of a particular municipality is hardly a novel concept, right? New Rochelle residents have absolutely no obligation to accept at face value what they are told by anyone including politicians and real estate developers.
There are pros and cons to any ideas about city planning and real estate development.
One approach is to create shopping and entertainment venues that attract people who come to the city during the day but do not live in the city; that approach relies on sales tax and has the benefit of reducing the costs of providing infrastructure and schools. The downside is that revenue from sales tax can be unreliable — a recession and/or new competition can decrease revenue in sudden and unexpected ways.
Conversely, a plan based on residential properties means far greater revenue stability from property tax but with the downside of increased costs for infrastructure and schools.
What makes me worry about what is going on with the “master plan” we now have is that by giving away 30 year tax abatements on Avalon, New Roc, Trump , LeCount Place, Echo Bay we are getting the worst of both. We get the increased costs of infrastructure and schools without the stable tax revenue from property tax. Avalon, for examples, pays no property tax and they have the right to build 7 towers.
This might be OK except that we’ve been told that these developments will NOT attract lots of families with kids going into the schools. That is turning out NOT to be the case with Avalon and Echo Bay is almost certainly going to add many more kids to the Trinity school.
Right on Bob
When they let Cappelli build 39 Stories with Parcel 1A now Trump Cappelli they skirted the concerns about schools and Fire Department related infrastructure. In fact they fast tracked just about every study in the matter including traffic,polution, school density and High Rise Fire Fighting.
The comments about those subjects where always met with A1A is being marketed to High Net Worth Seniors selling their homes in Scarsdale they won’t have children of school age living with them?
Avalon was to be Manhattan Singles looking for the Convenience of living close to Metro North they will buy homes when they marry and have children?
Its a huge double wammy to tax payers when you factor in that these developers are given Tax Abatements/ Pilots so the infrastructure hits like fire Trucks and equiptment is paid for by the base tax payer and not the property’s actually causing the problem. Its the same hide from reality we have seen from the present Mayor and his 3 cronies.
So lets say we all take the hit and these new residents have school age kids where is the room for expansion. Someday little Johhny and Mary are going to grow and show up at NRHS. Its already the 4 largest in NY State.Where are they going to go to High School. Any Master Plan would consider this but has Bramson thought for one second where this all goes down the road. The only thing for sure is these new residents kids will be raising their own kids by the time the PILOTS and Tax Abatements sunset. The scarry thing is Commisioner King is out there every day creating more and more opportunities without any thought of the big picture or the master plan.
What happens in 20 years genius.
What happens in 30 years.
what happens in 50 years.
These are the same guys who did not get that when Cappelli tried to skirt his Water bill of 2.4 million for piping the Trump Cappeli building that eventually the residents who pay their water bills quarterly would be picking up that tab in a rate increase.
Hello any one looking at the future. You can’t keep giving away the store without having to pay up some day. The main question they should be asking is why do people want to live in New Rochelle. I keep coming up with a quality of life that relates around family’s and children. Anyone who has ever been to a Ward School event or a Youth sporting event would understand. Frankly the City is giving away that quality of life for zero benefit to the City.
Seems very stupid to me.
No one speaks for all of New Rochelle
And the middle east peace talks? LOL
Response to “You are a malcontent…”
Call me stupid (some have) but I thought blogs were a chat forum, not a solution center! I dont recall Cox ever claiming to have the solution (just opinions) and he never said he speaks for all of New Rochelle,just that he wants to report New Rochelle activity. Whilst we are on the topic, how Cox, how do you plan to bring peace to the Middle East… people take this blogging stuff way to seriously. I read this page for amusement however I did manage to give 3 people the info about the Ballys closing and they didnt even know. So people, get a grip, take your meds, and be real. This is a blog, not the magna carta.
Mr Malcontent sez …
There seems to be a cadre of people who’s reaction to any criticism of any city item is a bluster of knee jerk reactive denials or obfuscation of the facts/ opinions presented. The beauty of this site is that it allows the free exchange of ideas you wouldn’t necessarily hear for various reasons, and that IS what it’s all about. We’ve been spoonfed about the dynamics of the school board, development, taxes, sewage treatment et al by a very controlled media enterprise. This site bypasses all of that. I prefer the point/counterpoint of issues presented knowing that healthy debate on both sides uncovers the real issues.
That being said, understand, I never said I speak for all NR people. The voice is that of those who have had it with the uncontrolled steamrolling of the taxpayer. This city, with all of it’s controversy is still a diamond in the rough and many see the potential in moving forward, in a measured way, and maintaining a quality of life that would be the reason people would want to come hare and raise families and spend money. I’ve spoken to many people, on both sides of the fence, and it’s amazing how much there is in common. Side “A” want’s to see progress, a way to save the city and modernize things,and are willing to leave it up to the powers that be. They are very critical of side “B”, who remembers how it “used to be”. When you take the time to listen to side”B” you’ll see that they don’t want to regress, thet remember the QUALITY of life that seems to be collateral damage in the pursuit of progress. Things do change, it is in the way things change that will define New Rochelle and the quality of life one experiences.
Have you driven down Hugenot or up Main in the afternoon? Now add Khol’s and Target. Now add the 60 stories of Lecount, 3000 people from Echo bay, North Ave corridor will eventually add thousands more. Get the picture? You can have too much of a good thing. With no room to expand traffic corridors we are left with congestion and polution, asthma, noise, school overcrowding and the expense of expanding (remember sales tax does not go to the schools and property tax the school would get is abated). One of the comments was about how Trump and the Lofts were to cater to high net worth empty nesters. Sounds good in theory, but as I said, we don’t live in a vacuum. If you listen to the radio adds, Capelli’s selling point for the lofts IS the school system (free pre-k, why pay for pre-k when you get it for free). Granted, he needs to sell, but it only reinforces that you can’t control end use. There has to be a balance of residential and retail but you can’t put it in a 6 block area and expect people to want to come there. Not many will fight traffic and congestion to get to Kohl’s/Target when they can go to Mt Vernon and pay less sales tax.
There has been many discussions with the city about all of these concerns and it has been met with little interest. They know what’s best for us. I don’t believe that. How about keep the facade of the post office, the curved customer side of it. It’s an historical landmark. Cities all over the country realize the benefit both in ecological and cultural terms of adaptive reuse. The city has the ability to require reuse, they choose not to in deference to the developer. Why is that. Who does that decision benefit?
When people start to reach out and listen to each other with open minds this city can truly make progress without the casualty of overbuilding. Look at the “most read all time” column about the silver lining. That person suggests taking a timeout to “recalibrate”. Close to 3000 people thought it was worth reading.
I never said to hate Capelli or council, but open your eyes and let’s not raise them to a status not deserved. Mr Capelli isn’t evil but he does these things to make money. Council wants progress and in the give and take of negotiation perhaps we’re giving too miuch away. When the time comes that I can’t challenge councils decisions or criticize direction, I will order brown shirts for all of us. If you choose to smile and nod without asking questions that’s your prerogative, I expect better for this city, I believe in the potential that is right here already.
As for ideas, keep the front of the post office, move the “back end” of it to a more suited locale, make Lecount smaller and give him a contract to develop a “green” trolley to connect the north end to downtown (ask Jim Killoran about that), instead of 3000 people at Echo Bay cut it down to 200 and adapt the Armory to it’s potential as a “town hall” venue of museum/ art center/ centerpiece that would attract people to come on down and spend money then go home, Surrounded by shops and restaraunts youth activities (I’m sure there’s plenty of other uses). No impact on schools, more tax revenue, less strain on city services, ecologically sound. As a fact, the Armory would cost less than the amount of abatements given out to the developer. That’s just me. I can guarantee this city has a lot more creative minds “in house”. So, you see, there’s plenty to evaluate if you take the time to look. We all want a city to be proud of, together we can make it happen.
Mr Malcontent, the label has been lifted
No Joke here. I just want to say thank you for the response. That is what we need to hear. I do not expect you to have the “solutions” to NR’s ills but in reading this entry now I know where you are coming from and can agree with some if not all of your points.
There are too many in New Ro who just say it sucks with no rhyme or reason as to why. unfortunately they also seem to be be the people doing all the talking or posting and that only hurts the cause of those who actually have reason for their concern.
I am not a cheerleader for the City of New Rochelle but if one side just keeps criticizing without offering a basis to their arguement other than saying thats my opinion thats where it all falls down.
Shouting at the rain helps no one. this might be a stretch but lets take Ron Tocci for example since he was and is a politician even without office. He does not like Echo Bay as proposed. he let everyone know and he came back with a revised plan that was very indepth. You and I may not have time to do something liek that but at least another option for people to explore and maybe improve is on the table. That is what i am asking for. Otherwise it is a one sided discussion and the people of NR are quick to tune out. Or throw stones and discredit by saying you are just negative. Fight them at their own game.
Mr Malcontent sez thanks !
I appreciate your comments. This is how dialogue begins. I really don’t suppose to speak for anyone else, but I do talk with some of the people who lash out and say that things suck. They are fruatrated at watching the city being sold down the river as it were. I’ll be the first to admit, I don’t have the answers, but I do share the frustration of those around us who see a higher quality of life for NR in the future and little chance of reaching it if things continue as planned. It’s very hard to verbalize these frustrations for some, but when you see/hear complaints and characterizations of unrest mounting as they are, you have to wonder about what’s going on. You don’t have to know how to drive to see the road crumbling in front of the car. We are the passengers and we elect representatives to do what’s right for the collective us. They are the drivers, but somehow they choose not to see what’s before them. That’s the frustration, they don’t listen to the growing numbers who aren’t comfortable with THEIR plans. Pull the car over, change drivers and let someone else find the paved road, and I’ll tell ya’ it’s not main st. Thank’s again !