Facing further massive declines in revenues, City Manager Chuck Strome has entered into confidential discussions with the main unions in New Rochelle– Police, Fire and DPW — looking for givebacks on current contracts and threatening layoffs if the unions do not go along, sources tell Talk of the Sound. Strome has told union leaders the City can no longer honor its contractual obligations to City employees due to significant shortfalls in City revenue as a result of the economic downturn.
“The City has been meeting with the labor unions relative to the 2010 budget in an effort to work together to get through these difficult financial times,” Strome told Talk of the Sound.
Talk of the Sound has also learned that when the City Council meets tomorrow, Howard Ratner, the City’s finance chief, will announce that revenue is down another half a million dollars from recent projections as the full effects of the economic downturn start to be felt at City Hall. Revenues projections from earlier budget proposals now significantly overstate the actual revenue and the City is hemorrhaging cash. Sales tax revenue has been particularly devastated with a general decline in business and the closing of big box stores Linens & Things and Home Depot EXPO. CostCo, one of the biggest sources of sales tax revenue in New Rochelle, has remained open but seen sales deteriorate since the opening of B.J.’s in Pelham.
Strome told Talk of the Sound that the City has not met with department heads to discuss any specific position reductions other than the continued hiring freeze but sources tell Talk of the Sound specific numbers have been discussed with the unions.
The unions have reportedly given Strome a cool reception to a proposed two year deferment on current contracts with raises back-end loaded into year three.
Hardest hit may be the New Rochelle Police Department. Despite having recently reached a tentative agreement on a 3.5% salary increase for superior officers, Strome has told union officials that unless they forego their own increases the City may cut up to 18 rank-and-file positions by the end of the year. The Superior Officers Association has been without a contract since 2008.
Sources tell Talk of the Sound there are currently six open positions at NRPD due to normal attrition so the plan floated by Strome would be to not fill those positions and lay off another 12 officers.
The DPW Workers union have been told to expect the loss of 6 positions. The union is likely to push for cuts in the number of Community Service Officers. CSO’s are hybrid positions that straddle the line between DPW and Police. CSO’s write quality of life tickets, code violations, serve as backups for school guards, and write parking tickets. Some have questioned whether terminating revenue producers like CSOs make sense.
There has been no discussion about job cuts for firefighters because the union, still upset over a recent arbitration ruling which took away health insurance benefits for retired firefighters, has made it clear they will not discuss givebacks until health insurance benefits for retirees is addressed.
There appears little doubt that something had got to give because City revenues have taken a beating due to the decline in property values, tax certioraris and declines in sales tax revenue but Strome insists it is still early yet.
“No specific numbers have been determined if layoffs were required”. said Strome. “The 2010 budget process is just beginning.”
It remains to be seen who will blink first but Strome’s tough negotiating stance with the unions stands in stark contrast to the anemic effort by Schools Superintendent Richard Organisciak who meekly submitted to an increase the number of classroom teachers and an across the board 4.2% pay increase over the next two years without securing a single giveback on pay, staffing or benefits by the schools union.
naacp law suit
bob were are you naacp suing nrpd.
City’s poor fiscal management
I think we can all agree the city is mismanaged at just about every level and we can no longer afford the ever increasing property taxes.
Each department head should slash their budgets by 10%. They know where the fat and waste hides.
The city manager should give back the raise he just received. All administrators should give back any raises they have received. Most importantly, the Mayor should give back his most recent raise. I think it was $30K to $40K. Only then can Chuck go to the unions for concessions. In the private sector raises and bonuses have been eliminated and people have lost their jobs. Have you seen the unemployment percentage lately. In case you have not, its 9.6 % and climbing.
Eliminate the mayor position or consolidate the city manager role into the mayor. We do not need both.
Lastly, the city can avoid layoffs and provide lasting property tax relief by reducing the pension, healthcare, and other benefits of the city’s employees. Remove overtime from the final salary used to calculate pensions. Make city employees pay more for their health benefits while working and in retirement. Eliminate 20 years and out for policeman and firemen. This is one outrageous perk. Work 20 years and receive a pension and healthcare benefits for 40 years. Are you nutts? One last question. How many New Rochelle employees have been fired? None. We can no longer afford two classes of citizens in this state. Sheltered state and local employees and private sector employees who have lower benefits and can be fired at anytime.
re: Your statement
Outrageous, when was the last time you ran into a burning building? That’s what I thought…never! Understand this, overtime assists the city by being fiscally responsible (how is that?) The NFPA mandates and recommends that a minimum number of firefighters respond to adequately prevent civilian fatality/ injury, firefighter safety, and to minimize property damage. That manning number has been significantly reduced by 25% in the last 30 years, however; the amount of alarms have significantly increased by 300% thereby allowing a city to hire on an as needed basis and not having to employ a full-time firefighter for the duration of their career. In addition, understand that when a firefighter retires, statistically speaking, he dies on average 10 years less than a person that hasn’t been introduced into the same type of environment over the course of their career. Before you comment, know the facts!
Facts
The alarm call increase you speak of is 99% ems calls. Fires in every corner of the country are down 75-90% or more. Of the thousands of alarms you receive each year how many are actually fires?
The early death rate for firefighters is based on historical figures which includes the years before firefighters were required to wear breathing tanks and they were exposed to infinitely more toxic material.
Overtime as an incentive for a firefighter to retire is actually a good idea. The city can save much more by hiring a new firefighter to replace a veteran.
as far as the “when was the last time you ran into a burning building” argument, when was the last time you danced in a ballet? or walked on a tightrope? or worked on a pig farm? If you are trying to say the job can be dangerous, yes it absolutely is. But what does that have to do with the previous posters comment?
Contract Deferments and Threatened Layoffs
I believe that the Unions should defer their raises as soon as all the so called leaders of this fine Queen City of the Sound do their part and give back some of the windfall raises they keep getting.
Our bills and taxes don’t get deffered, however, our leaders want us to bite the bullett because they are incapable of running the City properly.
“Renegotiate” with Capelli and the rest of your friends
If the city is in the mood to go renegotiate deals they made in the past, why not start with their developer friends and ask the Avalon, Capelli and Trump to give up part of their tax abatements. Let’s see what they say. And if they agree, maybe the unions will want to give back a little too. lol
“Renegotiate” ? – It’s called “clawback”
Every IDA deal has the ability to “claw back” monies defered when the developers project doesn’t deliver the jobs or tax revenues as projected . Has the developer met his mark regarding the terms ? How can we review the numbers to determine if the city is entitled to getting back some of the millions handed out to the developers . Maybe Bob Marrone can ask Ms Sussman next time he has his little powder puff talk with her on her show . That would be more informative than hearing her talk about how we should be encouraging more people to come up to the north end to shop.
Layoff all the “ASSISTANTS” before police and fire
The BOE is loaded with people that do NOTHING all day. And I mean NOTHING. It takes 3 Boe employees to do the work that 1 motivated employee can do. And inside city hall there are dozens of positions that can be cut without affecting day to day operations. Basically the city has about 20% of the positions that are useless but they have their friends in them.
Get rid of our “do-nothing” Mayor
Why fire the City Manager? At least he works for his salary. But $90K for a mayor who cuts ribbons, writes publicity for Congresswoman Lowey, and ?????
Hmmmm. What exactly does Bramson do all day Monday thru Friday at City Hall? Is he, a part-time mayor, really worth that high a salary – plus benefits and perks? For a part-time official? Ridiculous! I say keep the City Manager, get rid of the position of mayor, and save the taxpayers of New Rochelle $90K a year – plus++. Give us a break already!!!
You are forgetting why the Mayor gets 90k
I forgot the exact quote, but it was Idoni that increased the mayors salary. Idoni said that It was important for the Mayor to be available 24/7 in case Donald Trump needed to get in touch with him and therefore he deserved the increase in pay. It was around the time the City was dealing with Trump for David’s Island.
Strome and Organisciak in a celebrity grudge match
Two men in – one man out – winner handles all union negotiations – school , city , all . Hold it in the Armory and sell pay-per -view franchise.
Chuck “the slasher ” Strome vs Dick “the dolt” Organisciak . You can’t make this stuff up !
csos
bob who told you that csos will be cut?
Givebacks
Of course the BOE is not going to ask for givebacks from the union that backs their candidacies. This is a miniature of the political corruption that infects Washington.
J. Wagner
Mismanagement abounds
The Fourth of July extravaganza goes off without a hitch and it was great. Did anyone wonder how much city employee overtime was associated with this frill? Strome and his minion’s still drive city unmarked pleasure vehicles with 24-7 unlimited use. They refuse to put City Seals on their cars but the stickers from the colleges their children attend are ok. There are council members who circulate through the city claiming they are watching out for taxpayers and will protect their pocketbooks yet approve a 3.5% raise for the Police Superior Officers who all make in excess of $100,000 while demanding the DPW worker making less then $35,000 defer his contractual raise for two years. I would like the vote on the SOA raise to made public. Let’s see who gave our money away if you have the guts. Have the mayor and council been approached to rescind their raises for two years? All this and New Rochelle makes headlines for bike racks, talk about mismanagement.
Was transportation to fireworks provided by NRPD?
A past post reported that sponsors and community supporters were treated to a BBQ at the Five Island Pavilion. In addition to the free food and live band, were they also escorted by police bus to the event?
No, the police bus only
No, the police bus only brought the cops down there
No, that is not what I saw.
I saw regular folks, not police officers board the bus marked ‘Police’. There were different age groups, enjoying themselves and taking photos, boarding the small ‘coach’ bus.
Oh, I thought you meant the
Oh, I thought you meant the big blue school bus. didn’t see the small one
Layoffs, start at the top!!!
The unions have given back constantly, contract after contract with less employees, reduced benefits and lesser wages than their neighboring counterparts. Now the City is threatening again to lay people of if the unions don’t concede once again. I say call their bluff. They preach labor harmony but that is all a farce. Never have they bargained in good faith. A constant loser to every lawsuit or grievance, great management by the leadership playing with house money, why should they care. They want want want and if the unions don’t concede they just wait them out. Look at all the salary reports in the Journal news. The NR salaries are nearly the lowest. The work force in the City is already decimated, they have the worst roads, worst snow removal, still picking up leaves in February and now they want to take more away from the unions. Maybe the man at the top and all his cronies should give a little, oh wait they have. They have all either retired, will retire or have changed their pensions to for maximum benefit at the city’s expense all the while trying to blame the waste and mis-management on the poor working stiff. Fired the City Counsel because she told the truth, but that doesn’t matter. How much money do they waste hiring outside counsel to screw their cherished employees and the unions??? Nice try ivory tower, this time everyone has your number. Lay them off but be ready for mountains of garbade, snow covered streets, increases in crime, blocks devistated by fire and most of all labor harmony…
Why did they fire Bernis Shapiro?
You wrote “Fired the City Counsel because she told the truth, but that doesn’t matter. ”
What truth did she tell?
Corerection
Should have started with “They fired”. Rhetorical. Sorry
csos
bob why are you not posting all comments? where did you get your info. on the union is looking to lay off csos
We are posting comments…
Your question motivated me to write a post I had been planning for a while…
Why Anonymous Comments Do Not Appear Immediately on Talk of the Sound
http://www.newrochelletalk.com/node/862
As for sources, why do you imagine we disclose sources? We have many sources all throughout the City and the reason we have so many is because they know we will NEVER disclose their identity.
The union wages in this
The union wages in this city, esp the PD, are far below their counterparts in this region. SAD.
Administration salaires
Wouldn’t it be also right for Strome and the Mayor to CUT their own salaries. Also any other administration employee’s who make more than $100,000. That would help the city’s budget.
How about eliminating the
How about eliminating the City Manager’s position all together…go to the “strong mayor” form of gov’t. I know it was voted down once before, but maybe it would pass this time around.
Anyway, layoff 18 cops? That’s just plain crazy! Forget about the crime issues, overtime expenses would have to rise I would guess.
listen
wake up people this is just the begining lets see what howard says to say tuesday night . listen carfully people
It would be nice if the Fire
It would be nice if the Fire Commissioner would stop stuffing the bank accounts of his “cronies” and “stooges” at the expense of those he sees as adversaries. Anyone in City Hall got the balls to ask him how he doles out overtime? I’ll tell you…he screws the junior men at the expense of those about to retire. He uses OT as a weapon to keep people in line.
He always took care of his
He always took care of his cronies or his cronies kids. How many times has he looked the other way when one of them was in trouble, yet looking to dole out the most severe of punishments to those who questioned him. He’s been there too long, now everything is a right of entitlement to him. Time to go and get an outside Public Safety commissionr, equal treatment to all, plus save 175K per year and bennies.
unions fault
This cronies stuff only happens if the union allows it. Who else has sticky fingers?
The leader of the FD is a
The leader of the FD is a disgrace, ask anyone who’s been screwed by him, which are quite a few. He’s far from a “doc”, though recently has used “shill” so-called doctors to screw injured members.
Never “buck” the system, you’ll be punished for speaking your mind. The Mullahs have more compassion than the fire chief.
As mentioned before he uses OT and cushy jobs as a form of heroin for firefighters. He’s passed over people for promotions for union activity, just cause he don’t like em’, or worst yet, some phony rumors started by firehouse washwomen.
He needs to go, but won’t because he’s buddies with the rest of the crew stinkin’ up City Hall.
The majority of the FF’s do
The majority of the FF’s do NOT live “far away”, most live in New Ro or surrounding communities. Some do live in Putnam or even further(including some of the higher ups), but we don’t need to go there right now.
The fact of the matter is the buffalo keeps stirring the pot, to keep members fighting amongst themselves, when he is the real enemy. We need a Public Safety Commissioner, from outside the City, one who is all business. Better to have an even-handed boss who treats everyone equally, then a divisive one.
It is ludicrous to suggest
It is ludicrous to suggest “choir practice” is/was not about drinking. Puhleeze! Some “practices” were held after a night shift at 7 am. I guess the wives, girlfriends and children attended?
Where were the evening ones held? In church? At Mickey D’s? At Hudson Park? NO, there were for the most part held in bars. Tell the truth, it’s time to come clean.
Maybe they drank so much was because the POS commish drove em’ to it.
Will BOZO be at the picnic
Will BOZO be at the picnic next week? Will Timmy show with his goomah?
I heard of many choir
I heard of many choir practices in the last 20 or so years, never heard of one with wives and kids.
Do I have the right job?
Right Job
If the last day shift ended on a Friday or Saturday there were certainly many that included some wives or girlfriends…no kids. I guess it all depended on what squad you were in, how many of the guys were married and/or their ages. Many of the wives looked forward to seeing the other wives. I’m really sorry to hear about the moral issues. I still consider it the best job in the world and the most rewarding.
We need Jim Smith back as
We need Jim Smith back as City Manager, none of these shenanigans would be happening today.
You can’t be this simple minded
I’m giving you real examples of why Morale is low and the TRUTH about where and why we met after our last day shift and all you can do is sling sophomoric responses that try to cast a bad light on what was a very positive practice until the 24’s ended it. The complaining union member is nothing new, the do minimum union employee is nothing new and tough negotiations with the city is nothing new. What’s probably new here is you. If you don’t like your job leave and let someone who wants it get it. If you have suggestions for improvements, make them. If you just want to whine and moan about the realities of working for a municipality, you’re going to have a miserable career. Good luck.
As reviously mentioned, the
As reviously mentioned, the City has lied to the unions before. It’s always “when times get better you’ll do better”, but those days never seem to come.
Part-time City Council members get full-time health insurance,paid for in full by the City, while new firefighters pay %18 of the premiums. When the FF retires he continues to pay %18 while the councilmember gets FREE insurance for life. How’s that work??
The most dangerous thing about being on the Council is getting stuck in an elevator. Then what? The FD comes to get them out.
To equate “choir practice”,
To equate “choir practice”, getting drunk, with comradery is a joke. A small percentage went to “choir practice”, so that’s a non-starter.
Little boys never grow up.
Maybe you don’t understand
Not everyone that attended “choir practice” was there to drink. Many squads had their wives attend. Many members from other squads attend other squads choir practices. It was a way to associate with each other, talk about work, talk about putting together other outside activities like the SOAPBOX Derby, charitable events, golf outings, softball games etc..etc… Looking back, most of the attendees were the very dedicated guys on the job…many of the other guys had long drives home or family obligations….bottom line, it was all of these things combined that increased morale. You obviously didn’t attend or maybe it ended before your time, but it certainly isn’t a joke to equate “choir practice” with comradery. I guess the 24 hour schedule did more damage to the job than I thought.
doc
hes the man
Morale is at an all-time low
Morale is at an all-time low in the FD. Talk about getting what you can? That’s what everyone has done thru the years and WILL do even more so from now on.
The “family” spoken about has been destroyed by the commish, now guys only want to finish their shift and go about their lives.
Talk of layoffs, givebacks? It’s hard enough trying to get anything from the City when the economy is booming.
The commish plays like he’s on your side, all the while stickin’ the shiv in.
He needs to go, now. Get someone to run the PD and the FD just like White Plains does. Better to work for a hard-nosed boss than a backstabber.
Morale was destroyed by 24 hour work schedule…NOT the Chief
The membership voted for the 24. The 24 has eliminated “choir practice” made the work day too long and destroyed the comradery. All of these issues were raised when the 24 was being tossed around. However, since many of the men live far away they voted in favor of the 24. That is THE MAIN REASON morale is so low. Guys don’t look forward to going to work for a long day and when the 24 hour day is over they can’t wait to leave. The 3 days 3 nights made everyone closer. You got detailed in the middle of your tour and that was an opportunity to meet new guys or get to know them better. Many a wife also like it when their husbands were in the firehouse for 3 nights (no snoring and the remote all to themselves). To blame “Doc” for the low morale is disingenuous at best.
Part time
Let’s all be honest here. The New Rochelle fireman job is a part time JOB. I don’t care how many hours are put in. Most (all) of the firemen have other full time jobs.
It’s a shame
if that’s what is going on in the NRFD with morale. If anything is worth keeping intact, it’s public safety(police, fire & I would also add dpw to that) & no, I am not a city employee, but have lived here my entire life. I don’t know about the rest of the readers, but I have had cause to call 911 a few times in all my years here…..and you know what??? They come & they come quickly, and they save lives when they come. I’ve seen it.Thank god I never had to call for a fire in my home, but for a medical emergency, I don’t think you could get a better response time anywhere. Believe me, I work in NYC, I would hate to have to depend on response times there(traffic). I know many of them, some my whole life(police, fire & dpw), not a bad guy in the group, and a lot of them still live here, in every section of town. Any resident who has these guys as neighbors should feel lucky, as they are “on duty 24/7”. If the council, or Strome, really believe they can cut these departments, and still maintain the quality of services for the residents, they are crazier then even I thought possible.Mr Strome,Mayor Bramson, Council members Keep public safety intact, keep their morale up. Believe me, if you ever have to call them( and I hope you don’t), you are in good hands.
“Doc” Kiernan is a great Chief and commissioner
As Fire Chief and commissioner, Doc does an excellent job. He balances his role as management and Firefighter about as well as anyone could hope for. Over the years he has had to deal with very tricky situations. Every firefighter on the job is part of the brotherhood that Doc looks after. If you get in a jam, he will do everything he can for you IF…IF…IF he knows you are dedicated to your job. If you’re one of the guys that takes all he can from this job and gives nothing in return, then I wouldn’t expect favoritism in return and neither should you. As far as overtime goes, it has alway been common practice to entice or reward soon-to be- retirees with some extra overtime. It is common practice in many departments and professions all over the country. The overtime has to be worked by someone. It doesn’t cost the city or taxpayers a penny or make a bit of difference who works the overtime. In addition the extra overtime a soon-to-be retiree earns often is enough to make some decide to retire. Replacing a retired firefighter with new probationary firefighter saves the city over 100k due to the lower pay scale and steps to “full pay”. There seems to be some personal hostility in some of the prior posts that isn’t warranted. I’ve been retired for about 9 years and miss this job greatly. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
This post deserves more prominence
I sure you would register and submit as a full post not just a comment.
Now that is questionable???
I used to believe what you stated was true. But after hearing what he has recently done to a man that would certainly qualify as truly “dedicated” to his job I can no longer believe your statements to be true. No specifics, but his actions can only be deemed as personal. Enough said.
Not enough said
An anonymous comment about an unnamed person involved in some unknown case where some unknown thing happened is most definitely NOT “enough said”. In fact, it says almost zero.
If you want to provide some specifics that would be good. If you wanted to register and actually put your name behind your words that would, of course, be even better.
I agree, however
The incident is medical in nature and I do not want to violate anyone’s privacy rights. I will try to reach out to the involved party and ask for his permission to elaborate on some of the issues.
OT
Half of the overtime is paid to his hand picked cronies that work with him in fire HQ. He dangles the carrot to all the others, rewards for those who comply and make no waves. Do an analysis of the select few that work in HQ compared to the 150 who work in the field, HQ folks make up to 2 to 3 times more OT than the poor gut in the field and they do a fraction of the work, but I’m sure it’s all essential. Yea sure, the only essential OT should be to make sure there are men in the firehouses. And this is nothing new…
OT as a weapon
This comment was removed due to use of all caps. I know some folks are new here but we have do not allow the use of all caps as it is considered SHOUTING!
Thanks.
attn: all city workers
police,fire,csea ,cso,dpw. wait till your next contract matt is retireing you know and coming back as a concultant to neg, all union contracts
Matt
Yeah, on an hourly basis right? He won’t have any incentive to settle quickly…that should ring up some bills.
Layoffs will happen even
Layoffs will happen even with givebacks, never trust New Ro. Take the hit, keep the raises, let the City operate as a banana republic. Imagine Trump residents getting second class services. Not what they imagined.
Layoffs ARE happening
Layoffs ARE happening through the city,s hiring freeze. The FD is already down 6 positions and will be down a couple of more soon enough. The city wants to keep taking and cutting. I wonder if they remember when they asked unions to take zeros in a past contract to help the city that they protected out with the promise of “as soon as it gets better we will make it up to you?” Guess what that got us? You guessed it! ZERO! Why does everyone else have to bail out the city all the time? The city took away our medical after we retire. I personally want to say thank you for showing me how much you appreciate the sacrifice that i have made serving my community. I just have one question? How come a City council member can work two terms PART-TIME and receive medical benefits FREE for the rest of their life? Im sure your job is not as dangerous as ours is. One more thing to remember as you gut the city of its services…. as you deplete the city of services… think of the business you will attract as the insurance rating drops to a 3 which will cost everyone MORE out of their pockets for insurance. It seem to always cost everyone else for your mistakes….. enough is enough!
Part time Mayor
Also let go back to the part time Mayor. Really, what has the Mayor really done, while working full time. Anything more then when it was part time?
Part time Mayor
For the money he makes you could put 3 firefighters in the firehouse.
Strong Mayor?
You would need a mayor who possesses the ability to be strong . Now, if you want a weasel – self serving mayorial form of government, we’re in luck !
Eliminate waste BEFORE layoffs
Does New Rochelle really need 4 police boats? Do they need full time active police operating them? There was a time when retired police officers operated the harbor police boat. They earned about double minimum wage and loved it. Today that would equal about $15.00 an hour. much better than the $80.00 an hour active police are getting. Not to mention the waste of fuel operating these vessels cost without much benefit. It’d be a joke if it wasn’t so criminal.
Police Boats/Police Salaries
For the record, there are two police boats and a top paid PO makes approx. $42.00 and hour. Get your facts straight!
Police Boats
There is the Pilot house police boat with twin outboards, there is the open bow police boat with a single outboard, there is the very large police boat (looks like a coast guard vessel and I believe there is another police boat not to mention the jetski’s that were in use last year ( what happened to them)?. The question still remains, WHY doesn’t the city go back to using retired officers for 1/5 the cost? The city mismanages at every level and this is a small example but a VERY costly one.
Look at the bigger picture!
Retired police officers do not have peace/police officer powers (i.e. -not revenue producing/ no tickets) . The police officers who are there (3 PO/1 Sgt)are already supplemented by part time assistants…I don’t know what their titles are though. In any event, you would not get a retired PO for $15.00 an hour anyway for the amount of responsibility they would have to take on. So what would you really save? The PO’s make $40.00 and hr or so.
They use two boats, primarily the “so called” pilot boat. The big boat was donated, I believe the jet skis were confiscated years ago, and the Harbor building was basically donated. I don’t know what happened to the jet skis & I am not aware of a “bow” rider boat. I have a boat in the marina and actually haven’t seen that one.
Every year they save a few lives in Long Island Sound. Having them in close proximity to NR is, IMO, more than necessary. On the water, time is the worst enemy when it comes to rescues…feel fortunate we have them! They are also responsible for keeping eye on the waterfront parks (on land).
If Boaters paid for the Harbor Police
Believe me, their would be a long waiting list for retired PO’s to work the harbor police boat. The tickets they write are often justified but many are written TO justify their existence. In any event, Pat Carol has used the marina to expand the number of officers on the force and his budget just as every other department in the city does. The bottom line is a few retired cops will accomplish the same thing and save a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Maybe if boaters had to buy permits to pay for the harbor police you would feel a little different?
Did you read any of my post?
Did you read any of my post? The STATE pays 58% of the harbor units costs. There is virtually NO SAVINGS to the city by disbanding the unit. Expand the number of cops on the force? What, by 3 cops assigned to the harbor for the spring and summer? No, that statement makes no sense.
One more thing, there would be no waiting list for the job by retired PO’s. I’m assuming it was you who said you could pay 1/5th of the cops salary to retired? So, doing the math, the retired guys are expected to do the job for $8.40 an hr? Please, get real and get a clue!
State Money
Where does the State money come from, the tooth fairy? It comes from taxpayers. So eliminating this unit will save money for the city and the state. Sounds like a win win to me
Agree also
The Harbor unit was manned by retired cops for decades. They did a fine job, were respected and loved the job. The were replaced by Carol during a power grab and effort to expand the force and budget. Just the site of the harbor police boat being driven by ANYONE in uniform achieves its purpose, to remind boaters etc..that their are rules of law even on the water. This can and should be done the way it was before; with retired cops at a fraction of the cost.
You are kidding, right?
You expect people in this society to respect clothing, lol? They hardly repect real, active cops today. It isn’t 20 – 50 years ago!!! You don’t put retired cops (aka civilians) in uniform and try and trick them into thinking they are ACTIVE police officers. That is the most ridiculous statement so far in this discussion. What are the retirees (aka civilians) going to do then when challenged by the “law breakers”? Slap them on the wrist? Say, “You better not do that again or else!” Then what? Doing so is like a reverse description of the “Boy who cried wolf”…they will learn, and nobody will listen. And before you suggest CSO’s, know they do not have full police powers.
I’m really tired of reading people talk about how it “used to be”. It isn’t then, it is now, a much different, more dangerous world. Putting a retiree (aka a civilian) in charge of ENFORCING the law, without full police powers is a really, really bad idea. There are many other ways to cut expenses, even in the PD, which are better options. Take home cars, putting cops working administrative positions inside the police station that a civilian could fill are two examples off the top of my head. I’m sure there is more. But there is no reason, what so ever, to compromise the public safety by eliminating a whole unit. Just re-organize with the personnel you have.
Is New Rochelle Shoreline like the Wild West?
Stop with the scare tactics. Boaters are not robbing banks on the water, they are not committing felonies and shooting it out with the harbor patrol. Most stops are for safety equipment checks, people riding on the bow of large boats, jet skiers acting like idiots or boats going to fast in the harbor. New Rochelle DOES NOT NEED police officers to do the job. Retired cops can do it and can do it with authority if granted by the city. And yes people do respect the uniform, maybe not in certain parts of the city but by and large the boating community is a different breed. You need to have some disposable income to afford a boat and all the associated costs so it is a different crowd. I don’t think safety is compromised at all. In fact if no one showed up to work at the harbor police it might take years before anyone noticed.
Pull your head out of the
Pull your head out of the sand! The city CANNOT just “grant authority” to retired PO’s (AKA CILIVIANS). No, it is not the “wild west”…but what about the other problems on the water. You mention safety checks, agreed, civilians can do that as far as inspecting. That is why the harbor cops are supplemented with civilians. But the summons have to be written by ACTIVE PO’s! That’s why it is called it “LAW ENFORCEMENT”! What about BWI (Boating while intoxicated) and other more serious issues? Retired PO’s(AKA CIVILIANS)cannot be granted such authority by the city. To CERTIFY someone with police powers, aka a police officer, would cost the city around $30,000 for the four months in the police academy. Not only that, do you think the PBA is going to go along with this?? With the threat of layoffs looming? As far as the “wild west” comment. It’s not the “wild west” because of the POLICE presence; just the same as on land.
Time for you to move out of fantasy land!
Total BS
Save this BS for Carol’s budget appeal to the morons on the council that will believe it. 7 months that the Harbor police boats are dry docked (out of the water) and there is NO police presence on the water, does the crime rate rise on the water? Does the harbor turn into the “wild west”? NO! If the city wants to generate income by writing tickets to boaters then just come out and say it. Don’t hide behind public safety to do it. Because if was about public safety then Retirees can do a great job as they always did. If it’s tickets you want then go ahead and write them. But I’m sure boaters would rather pay a little more for the municipal slip or some other city boating permit permit rather than having PO’s with ticket quotas.
re: BS
Generating revenue and law enforcement are two different issues. I was not talking about generating revenue.
Yes, the unit is not “manned” year round, which should make you happy, and the officers who man it from March to November go back to the street or other duties. Having them man the unit year round would be a waste, but they are ready, year round, with one boat always available if needed. Even when there are no tickets to write. That is not BS!!
Harbor Police
I’m not suggesting to eliminate the police positions. I’d rather see them on the streets in addition to the officers already on the streets. I think there are other places that there presence would prevent crime or improve the quality of life in New Ro. It’s just a better use of resources.
The “State money” is
The “State money” is provided to NR because the unit covers NYS waters, not just the “few miles of shoreline” along NR. The harbor unit has jurisdiction to all adjoining counties on the water, including Westchester, Nassau, NY County and even as far as Suffolk County. Somebody has to do it, why not NR? It is a benefit to the city with very little cost to the city. The “State money” would just go to another jurisdiction on the coast anyway, so you, and I, would still have to pay it. If I’m paying for it, I’d rather have it in my back yard, wouldn’t you?
As far as the tooth fairy, you must believe in him judging by your previous uneducated conclusions.
Jurisdiction?…Maybe they should get a helicopter!
If New Rochelle Harbor police are responsible for adjoining counties, I would be really pissed off if I were the other counties. Most of the day ALL the boats are docked at the police shack. When they aren’t they are usually scouting out the bikinis on the beach at hudson park and the various beach clubs. I don’t think they even know how to get to Nassau or Suffolk county. In politics you can make anything sound very important or essential but the bottom line is it’s BS. They go back and forth on the shoreline. ps. I’m not surprised Carol hasn’t attempted to sell the idiots on the council a helicopter unit.
They have jurisdiction and
They have jurisdiction and lend assistance when needed in adjoining counties.
Would you want the boats running 24/7? As far as the Helicpoter, Westchester County has an aviation unit when needed. But I can say I would agree we don’t need “our own” for the 8 or so square miles of NR. How about horses? Yes, we can save on gas! Hay is cheaper!!
Also, do you think the retired PO’s some here want to hire in place of the cops wouldn’t be interested in bikinis also? When they retired, did they retire from being human? Wait, we’ll make it an all female unit so you could sleep at night.
Police Boat Unit
Excuse my ignorance on the finer points of shoreline patrol funding. Given that the 58% State funding bogey requires the N.R. water patrol adjoining communities it would seem that I am only getting partial coverage for my tax dollars. That does not seem like a good deal to me. You stated “The State money would just go to another jurisdiction on the coast anyway” Unless the Patrol unit is mandated by federal regulation I would assume NYS is not required to maintain a multi jurisdiction patrol boat unit. An alternative coverage option exists in the form of the United States Coast Guard. Given the downturn in the economy, given the collapse in State tax revenue this program is a luxury that we simply cannot afford. Any responsible policy maker would recognize this and move quickly to terminate this type of program. Unfortunately, such programs are supported by local politicians to garner favor and treasure from their union masters so they are allowed to remain. Remain to suck and squander scarce capital from the taxpayer. It is likely the fixed and variable costs of this boat unit, on an allocated basis, exceed its measured output. In such a case given the decline in tax revenue, the only rational economic decision is to disband the unit. Doing this would actually support economic growth as the private sector multiplier exceeds the public sector multiplier. Once disbanded the highly trained personal resources of the boat unit would be unleashed to compete in the private sector. Even in this challenged labor market don’t you think this crack team of former public sector workers could secure employment in short order? As they would join concerns that are focused on having output value exceed input cost their inclusion in the private sector would further support the growth dynamic. Think of the sense of personal satisfaction these former boat cops would feel making a positive economic contribution without the support of the taxpayer.
No, you are a NYS resident,
No, you are a NYS resident, so how are you getting “partial coverage” for your tax dollars? Your tax dollars also pay for streets in Buffalo. I wrote, “the harbor cops assist other jurisdictions” and as a benefit, we have it in our back yard, why give it up?
The Coast Guard, as fine as they are, need the locals to safely and efficiently help cover this large body of water.
Again, I’m not going to argue regarding putting civilians in the positions covered by the police. IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN! So, that discussion is moot.
Anyway, have a happy day, go enjoy our waters and shoreline knowing you have help nearby if you need it!
Boat Unit Defender
It is obvious that you choose not to or simply just don’t comprehend the economic issues at hand. You use simplistic and naive commentary such “have it in our backyard” to justify the existence of the boat unit. You do not understand that capital is flexible and fungible and ultimately always flows to those who most efficiently allocate it. In times of economic stress failure to allocate capital properly only serves to extend the downturn. Then you resort to fear tactics, by claiming that going to the shore without a NR boat unit is extremely dangerous. The previous fascist administration used fear tactics to justify a war in Iraq that has cost the American taxpayer well over a trillion dollars and has resulted in 5,000 American deaths. The current fascist administration is using economic fear tactics to justify the greatest expansion of government power in the history of our nation. Which by the way centers on using leverage to allocate capital to the least efficient sectors of our economy. This guarantees a Japan like outcome. Your stance embodies the non-productive and entitled attitude of the public sector in both New Rochelle and NYS. Have a nice day.
re: defender
Fascist gov’t?? Fear tactics? Non-productive/entitiled attitude? LMAO!
I think I’ve made it perfectly clear that any money spent can be re-allocated properly, and in a way, to keep the services we now enjoy.
But, thanks for proving my point! Your little “rant” gave me all the credibility in this discussion.
Maybe you should re-locate to Jersey, you might be able to sleep at night. You have a nice day!
Harbor police cost savings
Firstly, There always was a waiting list of retired cops wanting the harbor patrol job. Secondly, yes there would be many retirees wanting that job. Retirees don’t require or would get sick days, vacation days, health insurance etc..etc.. which raises the cost of full time officers. And lastly, you are invoking the same mentality that the city does. What’s the difference if you save here and there. It’s only 3 more police officers for the harbor. Well, it does make a difference. And the savings would be substantial. The wasteful attitude is seen in every department in the city. We do not need 3 officers sitting in the harbor shack when they could be put to better use in other parts of the city.
Agree…
Add in the fact that the state picks up 58% of the entire cost of running the unit.
We have maybe a couple of
We have maybe a couple of miles of shoreline on Long Island Sound. There’s absolutely no need to have this big of a police presence. I think we should retire the entire fleet and put in a peace officer or someone else that only responds when there’s a problem. We don’t need police boats available 24/7.
You seem to know about the police boats
How many officers are assigned to the harbor unit, how many work any given shift, how many hours a week do they work and what are their ranks. Thanks in advance.
More Cost saving ideas
Why does the city continue to use Crown Victoria police cars? They are 8 cylinder gas guzzlers that cost the city a fortune in fuel. Why not move to a 4 cyl car that can get double or triple the mileage? The p71 police package crown vic was good when high speed pursuits were allowed and gas was 1.30 a gallon, however, high speed pursuits are discouraged in populated areas due to liability concerns. State troopers have the highways covered. I can just imagine what the fuel savings would be in a single year. The Mayor and council can’t think of one cost saving idea or revenue generator except for raising ticket prices. It’s time to rethink EVERY aspect of the way New Rochelle conducts business.
Good idea…problem is,
Good idea…problem is, there is no money for new cars. Have you seen the condition of the PD’s cars? Most of them look like they are held together with tape.
They have to be replaced some time
and when the time comes to replace the patrol cars it should be done with cars like the prius or other cars that can get 40mpg range.