While the debate over moving the City Yard out of its current location, extending Forest City’s MOU and building a new DPW Yard at the Beechwood Avenue site continues, the massive expansion of the New Rochelle Waste Waste Treatment Plant (“NRWWTP”) has received little notice. As the new structure begins to take shape, that will likely change. In what could well prove to be a game-changer for the desirability of residential property in the area between Lefebvre Lane and the New Rochelle Armory, several new structures, much wider and far taller than the existing facility are rising above the site of the proposed Echo Bay Development.
Talk of the Sound reached out to County Legislator Jim Maisano, who voted against the legislation for the project, to obtain information from Savin Engineers which acknowledged that the new structure will rise to a full height of 10 stories tall.
Maisano says he has always questioned Forest City’s residential piece for two reasons: that for at least half the day, Echo Bay is a ugly mud flat, and that it would be next door to a sewage treatment plant.
“Now that density and height have been increased due to state and federal mandates you have to wonder why Forest City still wants to move forward,” said Maisano.
Maisano says that he has worked with the county to control odor over the years.
“There is less odor now,” said Maisano. “but there is still some odor at certain times and this will certainly have a negative impact on residential development.”
The engineering company lists the elevations and building dimensions for the buildings as follows:
Solids Handling Building (180 feet long by 115 feet wide)
The height of new building above ground surface (Elevation 27) is 48 feet which is Elevation 75 feet (“above sea level”). The former Solids Handling Building was 39.5 feet above ground surface which was Elevation 66.5 feet.
BNR Building (290 feet long by 130 feet wide)
The height above ground surface (Elevation 15) is 81 feet. At high point in center of the building and 71 feet at the N tanks. This is Elevation 96 and 86 (above “sea level”), respectively.
The building heights and elevations given are for the highest point on the main structure and do not include the “swish” on top of the buildings, according to Savin Engineers.
In responding, the engineers sought to engage in damage control by stressing that the first building is only 9 feet taller than the existing structure:
“I believe that this person (your reporter) is talking about the Solids Handling Building, but we should probably supply the dimensions for the BAF/Admin Building. We should make the point that the Solids Handling Building is not that much higher than the previous Solids Handling Building used to be.”
The Solids Handling Building is not the central issue.
The BNR building, built at elevation 15 feet, will be 81 feet tall for a total elevation of 96 feet with additional structures on top, making the entire building top out at about 10 stories above sea level.
Combined, these new structures, added to the existing plant, are creating a massive structure which has only just begun to take on its full shape. In a brief tour of the plant/construction site on Wednesday, Talk of the Sound got an up close look at the ongoing construction which will ultimately dwarf the previously existing facility.
Talk of the Sound toured the entire area around the New Rochelle Waste Waste Treatment Plant.
The artist rendering of the scaled-down Echo Bay Proposal bears little resemblance to the reality of the area. The two kayakers foreground/left are actually in Sutton Manor; the kayaker foreground/right is in the New Rochelle Waste Treatment Plant. The only realistic element in the image is that all the boats are kayaks. As kayaks have no draft and sit almost entirely on top of the water they are the only watercraft that can navigate that area. Without a massive dredging project, costing tens of millions of dollars, the water is not deep enough to allow boats with any sort of draft to have access to that area as were depicted in previous Forest City/Ratner drawings.
Contrasting the artist rendering with the site design provided by Forest City, makes clear that, in reality, most of the land in front of the residential structure is covered by asphalt for two large parking lots.
The same site design shows that few if any of the proposed 250-300 apartments will have a water view. They either look out onto Main Street, into a courtyard, directly onto the armory, towards Sutton Manor or (most) out towards the New Rochelle Waste Water Treatment Plant which will tower more 5-10 stories above the apartments.
The “Primary Views” depicted in a second site design document, show the views not from the apartments but from Main Street looking down the driveway towards the parking lot. For most residents, they would only see the water when parking their car. The “Secondary View” points directly at the New Rochelle Waste Water Treatment Plant.
In reality, there is only a very narrow corridor which offers a view looking out towards Long Island Sound.
The very recent and rapid construction of the taller buildings and a review of tidal charts raise some questions as to the timing of the recent Public Tour of City Yard by New Rochelle DPW Commissioner Alex Turgis which was held at 10:00 a.m. on March 6th. The structure only began to reach its full height in the two weeks after the tour. The tour itself was held during high tide. The effect, intentional or not, was to minimize the visual impact of the new structure rising on top of the New Rochelle Waste Waste Treatment Plant and maximize the amount of water in front of the DPW Yard.
In the end, there may be no getting around the stubborn fact of a massive new Waste Water Treatment Plant towering over the area between Lefebvre Lane and the New Rochelle Armory raising serious doubts about the potential for “activating” the property in that area with cheaply constructed, low rise residential rental units, a strip mall and parking lots.
At a meeting of the East End Civic Association on Wednesday evening, residents expressed concerns about suggestions that given the questionable appeal of the location and change to small rental apartments — studios, 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom apartments — that the primary tenants for the 250-300 apartment building would be students from nearby Monroe College. The concern is that the result of the development would be the creation of college dormitory with the surrounding park land serving largely as a campus for Monroe College funded at taxpayer expense. Under such a plan, the New Rochelle Armory would be converted into an athletic facility for Monroe College which is currently in the last 2 years of a three-year lease at New Roc City.
“We don’t want that,” said one East End resident when informed of the possibility of a Monroe/Echo Bay plan.
The renderings look nice.
The renderings look nice. Couldn’t we just put up a giant picture of a waterfront and call it a day? Somehow, I don’t think people are going to flock to NR to look at our sewage and mudflats.
The Treatment Plant is No Secret to the City
Of course the City was well aware of the Water Treatment Plant.
I think what will emerge is what we have discussed before and what remains consistent with the stated Business Planning Objectives of Forest City. They are looking for divestiture; a way out of a deal that no longer has much in the way of an attraction to them. It is too small. If nothing else, they are a dramaatic organization and they likely allowed this to get to the point of what appears to be abstract art from Cox’s rendition so as not to impact the current situation in Yonkers in terms of presenting them in a negative light.
That doesnt’ matter as much to me as I honestly think that the Council would have voted this proposal down on its lack of merits.
There is this! It may truly center of the DPW yard in terms of the City trying to jerry rig this site to accommodate the DPW requirements. They acquired land in Beechwood that that would have little value to them if common sense prevailed and the DPW site remained unchanged.
Of course you have to keep your eye on Monroe, but we need to continue to remind City Council that they pose a real threat to planned commercial growth. This would also apply to purchasing the infamous 13 MOU property around Le Count Place.
If common and good business sense prevails as it should: (1) the question of the DPW movement is tabled until the Council has the opportunity to look at this with new, more critical eyes … and noses, when a smell test in taken into account. I would recommend, even if only a modeling exercise, getting land value for both sites determined for potential low scale residential and small business commercial uses.
The Armory is protected if the Council understands the prohibitions placed on ANY partial or complete destruction of its structural elements. Again, there is much merit in the subsequent ideas put forth by the citizen’s group. However shut down the rhetoric and let Tocci lead an effort to get involved with the City Development people. This could easily happen despite the reported animosity between Tocci and Bramson. Council would see it as useful and important especially……
If they have the spirit and sense to repel the Ratner boys and take a fresh look at the potential of Echo Bay.
The Armory could be the lead-in to a waterfront small retail development effort down in Echo Bay. Bob McCaffrey led off with an excellent example of one…. take a ride down the Connecticut coastline and you will see some examples of what works. The remaining Armory space can be devoted to community and veteran needs and I am positive that there would be available funding to preserve and actually “green” renovate.
Ideal state is a consolidation of not so pleasant but necessary areas…. renovated DPW yard, mandated sound waste silo…… then a restored community Armory quickly protected as a historical site, and then following many of the thoughts offered by the committee. Just lay off the rhetoric and put the patriotic theme as most veterans would have it… God, family, country, community.
Bounce Forest City and watch the “enablers”; again those who support and nurture the essence of politics many of us are fighting against… ideological politic parties, campaign contributions, a City not run by Charter (our Constitution) but by a power elite.
Marc Jerome is an enabler. He has too much influence, even power. This must be stopped now. I admire his smarts, his core business, but not how he goes about growing this core business. More on this next week.
I am essentially an optimistic person and remain so. What the hell choice do I really have? I am strengthened by input received lately from Maisano, Scully, and the old voices which are still in the forefront and making a difference.
Stop the enablers, insist the Council accept its Charter role as the oversight and policy arm of the City, and keep reminding our friends North and South and points in between, that we all win if we commit to doing the right things in the right ways.
Finally, see the growing tower in the water as a visible opportunity to get things going in the right direction.
Bob, very timely, and we all should be grateful but not surprised. This was important context and likely a symbol used more for the DPW effort than the Echo Bay debacle
Does our Council pass the smell test? Recall them all !
The City Council, Mayor, Manager, Need to take a bus ride with the citizens of New Rochelle Once a month through the streets of New Rochelle. Once again they prove they dont know whats going on.
Maybe we can recall the mayor and council!
Off Gassing Games of Contest
Often the waterfront brings on challenges. World Cup Races, Spirited Speed Boating Races, Fishing Tourneys and the Iron Man Compettition.
I suggest New Rochelle Echo Bay could be the site of the North East Off Gassing Competition.
Where by our Mayor competes agains the NRWWTP to see who can spew out more BS. Clearly we have one of the best. May I suggest moving the City Yard to 515 North Avenue and locating City Hall and our Mayor on the Top Floor of the NRWWTP as to me that would be the most efficient method for control of our world champion Off Gassing Mayor. Now that would be GreeNR.
Wow, that got me to thinking
Wow, that got me to thinking maybe we could use the methane to power something, like the garbage trucks or heat city hall.
Smoke and Mirrors
Bob,
Clearly the answer is mirror technology, and it’s a completely GreenNewRochelle solution.
After the full build out of the ten story Solid/Liquid Ode to Human Waste Monument, hovering over New Rochelle’s Gold Coast of prime waterfront is finished, we simply deploy the same convex mirror solution you often see on a tree, opposite a neighbor’s blind driveway. Yes, ours would have to be a bit larger and maybe flattened out a touch, but positioned correctly it would always show that alley view of the waterfront you’ve described so well in your diagram.
Positioning those kayakers from the drawing is going to be a tougher fix.
I’m thinking rear-screen projection might do it.
But let me work on that one.
Waste is Waste and Time is money!
Now that’s a horse of a different color. Come in. Come in. Welcome to the Land of OZ. Pay no attention to that man behind the Curtin. Can you find the pea under the shell? Look, nothing up their sleeve. I think even the chickens would not be happy about that one. Another egg laid!
I was just going down to City Hall to apply for a permit for an oyster bed down on the mud flats. I wanted to have them ready to sell to the tenants of the new development. Open up an oyster bar on the shore. We will have dinner and dancing until four, wine tastings and you can take a tour of our city waste and see our other waste below at the City Yard. Not to fear, you can’t see or smell the waste I was told. The real sewage treatment is getting done at 515 North Avenue any way. There is only one problem, there is no release valve. The waste, crap just keeps building and building, once again, there is no plan.
Cocktails on the veranda anyone?