What ever happened to United We Stand, We need another stint in boot camp!

76 thoughts on “What ever happened to United We Stand, We need another stint in boot camp!”

1. A Note from Warren on United We Stand!
   Warren has asked me to post this for him as he is unable to post any longer:

   Bob McCaffrey Well Said,

   This is brilliant and evocative. It is also very, very adult, very well defended, very American. I am prouder today than I was yesterday because I have seen the spirit of a people come through and debate a number of significant issues in a matter that could serve as a model for the United States. I wish when I was in better shape that I had the opportunity to contribute and to learn from proponents on both sides of the number of questions raised.

   You deserve the lion’s share of the credit for placing the debate in a form and style that a number of our best and brightest could sit down and with little in the way of ad hominem speech, give their points of view. There is hope for the City if this sort of reasoning continues.

   I am proud of every poster on this page and this entire series of opinion belongs somewhere in a City file available to the public and open for view. It brings back bittersweet memories of trying to get Noam to add the roles relationships and responsibilities of the City Council, City Manager and Ceremonial Mayor onto the City Council agenda and have the City Attorney give a presentation of findings and fact to the community. My sources tell me it was not distributed to the council members but destroyed. Were this done the tone of the debate thereafter in New Rochelle would have taken on the characteristics seen in this round in 2013. I fondly recollect the estimable Brian Sussman, a fine citizen, trying to secure documents I requested of him that indicated the actual wording of subsequent referendums on the ballot calling for the definition of the Mayor…. strong versus weak. There is so much more.

   I gladly stood in TOTS and tried to present my views on matters such as the primacy and need of the proper execution of the City Charter, the need to return to the 1996 Comprehensive Plan and not the jury-rigged 2012 version, which does not reflect the authenticity of the design and findings of the 1996 version. This is not trivial as it shapes the downtown and North Avenue debate much more forthrightly with no vapid verbalizations to disguise its importance. So much more…. the need to marry formally the School District to the City Administration to properly build a Commercial property tax base, the taking of a risk analysis to promote on-going property assessment instead of that abomination of employing an a posteriori (back ass end) assessment which guarantees most filers an adjustment, but cripples the economy as well as the appropriate management within the school district. Then, of course the Armory and with it, a correct and workable redefinition of the New Rochelle Waterfront as an integrated developmental asset.

   In all candor, neither the GOP, especially under St Paul nor most members of Talk of the Sound had much interest in these matters preferring cartoons, ad hominem attacks and endless complaints about subordinate matters such as parking or assessment. It was and is a waste of time and talent; the debate you have shared with me proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt. So, in my declining years I take great pride in reading what you have presented and hope that the good citizens of TOTS go after the forest and not the trees. The Gadsen flag nonsense is an understandable reaction to the divisions in the City, but this division is a diversion. As pointed out, I have an actual replica of the real Navy Jack featuring the coiled snake; it is an authentic replica and belongs, with Old Glory, in the Armory proper. Of course a proper material and size flag need to be purchased and I will purchase it if asked to do that honor. It is a red striped on white border flag with the snake displaying 13 rattles on its tail and it lies on the 7 red stripes. Surely it is the correct flag and I am going to present my replica in the weeks ahead to Jim Maisano, a fine ex-Marine and not a sunshine patriot, who I am sure will place it under glass, and display it in his office.

   Two final points, this series of dialogues points out the authenticity and value of Bob Cox who afforded breadth and scope for this fine series of public expressions. The community owes him many thanks for his steadfastness and community service. I only hope he carries the day on today’s ballot for school board member. The second point is that there appears to be uniform agreement that Barry Fertel has never met a mistake he didn’t like; something he has carried over from his days on the School Board. What a pity to have someone on the Council that could have made a major difference in coming up with an organizational arrangement to link together the City and District closer to promote a better City and District. I suppose he, like the others, did not really pay attention to the meaning and intent of Toccis’ legislation in the Assembly that lead to community voting for school board trustees and budget. It did not mandate relationships or even when this voting should take place.

   I would encourage Bob Cox, whether successful or not, to print out what Tocci’s bill actually said and perhaps Ms. Gill will understand what the New Rochelle Charter invests in her as Attorney, regarding the definition and intent of the Charter for Ceremonial Mayor, City Manager and City Council. She is not obliged to respond to a community member, but if someone like Louis Trangucci would stop standing in front of a wrong symbol on North Avenue outside of the VFW post and ask her, during a Council Meeting to define and describe these matters, the City would know and the community could finally understand. He would join Bob McCaffrey, Martin Sanchez, “Tim Knows”, John D, Brian Sussman, Bob Cox, Greg Varian, Ivar Hyden and others, as courageous and great 2013 New Rochelle citizens.

   Thank you Bob.

   Warren

2. If elected County Executive,
   If elected County Executive, I promise to raise taxes so that Westchester can have things I, oh I mean, the people want. I will give land and tax breaks to rich developers so that I, I mean we, can have more luxury residential buildings. I will leave the City of New Rochelle in the hands of my poker buddy and good friend, Barry Fertel. Barry will do what I, I mean you, want. He loves raisings taxes so the City and the County will have tax hikes when I am elected. Please vote for me so that someday I can become a U.S. Senator.

   Thank you,
   Noam Bramson

3. For Timknows – Further on Pepe Le Pew Theory
   Timknows – This is a reply to your post
   ‘Please be realistic’, at the link:

   http://www.newrochelletalk.com/content/what-ever-happened-united-we-stand-we-need-another-stint-boot-camp#comment-19359

   The following was originally posted far below, but the column was too narrow, due to too many replies to replies to replies.

   * * *

   The pepe le pew theory includes the so-called ‘pro life’ movement and 2nd amendment issues.

   The ‘pro life’ movement apparently are people trying to force their personal, strict religious beliefs upon a majority of Americans, and particularly upon women.

   I say ‘so-called’, because many if not most ‘pro-life’ advocates have no problem with capital punishment, and such people are hyprocrites who clearly do not support a person’s right to live, nor of the possibilities of false conviction turning an ‘execution’ into a murder.

   I think to most people in Westchester, the movement is really anti-choice, rather than pro-life.

   The year before the Supreme Court decision Roe v Wade legalized abortion in 49 states, NY State’s Republicans and Democrats together, legalized abortion in NY State. Republican Gov Rockefeller signed the legislation, and a couple of years later was rewarded by becoming the second appointed Vice President of the USA, by the first appointed President, Republican Jerry Ford.

   NY State has never been fertile ground for the pro-life movement.

   NY is also among the earliest states, to have strict gun control laws. I believe Republican Teddy Roosevelt was a major advocate of gun control in NY City and State. Teddy is on Mt Rushmore along with Able Lincoln, who was killed with a gun. Teddy was also shot by some nut, but survived only because the thick speech in his pocket absorbed most of the bullet’s force.

   In Westchester, the pepe le pew theory includes those politicians who advocate against gun regulations, or who advocate against a woman’s choices in birth control.

   The national Republican Party is so enmeshed in anti-choice and anti-gun regulation, that local Republican candidates are perceived as likely to harbor similar beliefs, and to make it more difficult to be elected. Any local politician who openly advicates against choice or against stricter gun control, will not be elected to office in New Rochelle nor county-wide in Westchester.

   I don’t see what this has to do with Bramson, because Democrats are perceived as pro-choice and wanting more gun control.

   It does reflect an impediment to Astorino, beyond the local unpopularity of things he has advocated. Astorino’s election was a fluke, because everyone was tired of Andy Spano.

   I find your concept of party line interesting, and not quite what I’d expected. I believe you have turned things upside down, but let me explain why.

   The reason that the Democratic Party advocates to protect the poor, less fortunate or those who need it the most; as well as advocate for civil rights for everyone; and advocates for more gun control is that most Democratic voters believe in such things.

   It is the voters telling the Democratic Party what to do, not the other way around.

   Furthermore, most Democratic voters consider their Democratic politicians to be too conservative, and are somehwat disappointed at the lack of progressive legislation and economic policy.

   Most Democrats would have preferred a Single Payer Health Plan like Canada’s, rather than the somewhat conservative, corporate-oriented Obamacare.

   Most Democratic voters are disappointed that Gitmo is still open, or that we are still somehow fighting wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.

   There are many other instances where Democratic politicians are more conservative than Democratic voters.

   But Democratic voters and politicians have learned to be more pragmatic.

   So Democratic voters are willing to voter for politicians who advocate Avalons or Forest City Echo Bay, or keeping Gitmo open, because they fear Republicans who associate with other Republican politician and voters who are anti-choice, anti-woman, anti-gun control, anti-gay, anti-ethnic, anti-immigrant; or who wish to force their religious beliefs on others; or are too militaristic. Except for guns, the Republican Party seems to be ‘The Party of Anti’.

   Republicans used to be pragmatic, but going back at least to 1992, the national Republicans have increasingly damaged their image and name, in support of reactionary causes that are totally obnoxious to the large majority of Westchester voters.

   GW Bush and Cheney were especially abhorent examples, but various Tea Party nits such as Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc, and Fox News, are so far out there and irrational, as to be totally unappealing to most Westchester voters, including presumable many of Westchester’s ever-dwindling, moderate Republican voters.

   Nationwide, many Republican voters are among the poor Americans. The Republican Party does its work for Wall St, which is where it gets its money, but it suckers poor, under-educated, evangelists and bigots, down south and in the mid-west and west, by advocating but never delivering on, promises of mixing religion with politics, eliminating gun control, reducing civil rights for gays, women, blacks, and restricting immigration by hispanics.

   Ironically, the parts of the USA where people rant the most against high taxes, are the areas of lowest taxation. It is such areas where the Republicans are strongest, but where the Republican voters mostly include poor, under-educated people, who themselves are the major receivers of federal benefits. Those Republican voters’ benefits are paid from the taxes paid by the voters in the other parts of the country where Democrats are strongest. That is to say, Westchester County Democratic voters willingly pay a lot of taxes to IRS to benefit poor Republican voters in the Deep South.

   The progressive agenda of Democratic voters benefits poor Republicans as much as poor Democrats. If your theory was correct, all the poor Republicans in the Deep South would switch parties.

   In fact, between 1968-1992, bigots in the Deep South did switch from Democratic to Republican, because since 1947, the Democrats switched from being the Party of the Confederacy and Jim Crow, to being the party of Civil Rights. During that same time, the Republican Party of the Deep South, switched from being the Party of Lincoln and Civil Rights, to the Party of bigotry.

   Democrats switched civil rights policies since 1947, because it was morally correct to do so, even though politically, it was harmful to southern Democrats getting elected in the what had been their ‘Solid South’ since the late 18th century.

   Republicans nationally, switched civil rights policies since 1968, although it was immoral to do so, because politically it benefitted the southern national Republican Party for a few decades.

   But demographic trends and an ever-progressive society, have caused the Republican Party to become a regional party of the south and west USA, with dwindling support nationally, and especially in Westchester.

   If the national GOP continues its reactionary politics of obstruction, it will eventually be replaced by a new major Party, at least locally. Meanwhile, Westchester’s Republican voters are ever decreasing in number, as are local Republican elected public officials, because of the extremist and obstructing policies of national Republican politicians.

   1. I am pro-choice
      Once again you go out of the realm of our debate to identify groups you oppose when you state that “the pepe le pew theory includes the so-called pro life movement and 2nd amendment issues.” I made an all-inclusive statement but you found it necessary, once again, to politicize my response. You make generalizations, which have no basis when it comes to republicans.

      I am pro-choice. I believe every person, man or woman, has the choice to put him or herself in a situation that makes pregnancy a possibility. The definition of birth control is “pregnancy prevention”.
      I will broaden the debate and say that conservatives believe that birth control is not about choice but about responsibility. Responsible people enter an encounter knowing how to protect themself and if they choose to ignore the possible consequences they are reckless. Now before you respond with rape and incest or mother’s health concerns, I believe 90 + % of people believe in abortion in uncontrolled
      and or health situations. Birth control is free in countless numbers of
      public health clinics so there are no excuses for unwanted pregnancies. This reckless behavior will only increase sexually transmitted diseases.

      As to gun control, NY already had the strictest controls in place. Do
      you believe reducing the number of bullets from 10 to 7 in a clip will
      have any impact on the mass slayings? You say democrats protect the most vulnerable but after the latest mass slaying, committed by a mentally ill individual, democrats try to make the strictest gun controls even stricter. Why not deal with the mental health issue? Most if not all-mass murderers have mental health issues. They, along with criminals, will find a way to get guns if they desire them. Laws, in general, are made for law-abiding citizens; the criminals and mentally ill will ignore them.

      Finally, how do democrats protect the most vulnerable? By increasing
      government and recklessly intruding in our personal lives, much like the current IRS targeting non-profit groups with “patriot” in their names or the FBI spying on the press by illegally investigating their phone records? Florida recently passed legislation requiring those on public assistance to pass a drug test; do you believe that is fair? I do! In the end, it’s all about personal responsibility.

      The liberals claim conservatives play on people’s fears. Yet it is the liberals who have mangled history in their claims that the Gadsden Flag represents the tea party as opposed to its true historical place as the first American Flag. It is the liberals who are playing on pubic fears at every turn as Bramson has already portrayed Astorino as a Tea Party scoundrel.

      I apologize for the short, direct response but I believe any response more verbose than 500 words is pontification.

      1. Actually, I wasn’t
         Actually, I wasn’t criticizing you, nor local Republicans or conservatives. Rather. I was criticizing Republicans in Congress, and Republican governors and legislators in southern, mid-west and western states, who are over-zealous in extremest agendas.

         I do believe a large majority of Americans believe in birth control, including abortion on demand by the mother for any reason, at least within the first two trimesters, and even during the third trimester when there are special issues involved.

         Personally, I believe all private ownership of guns should be banned, but I realize that is unrealistic in our overly-violent USA. Therefore I compromise by pragmatically recognizing the requirement of permitting well-regulated ownership of registered firearms, and that are neither automatic nor semi-automatic weapons.

         The best way to prevent sexually transmitted diseases is sex education in schools, and to encourage usage of condoms and medications. That’s just reality, no matter what one’s morality might be. Legalizing and registering certain unlawful practices, might also reduce the transmission of sexual diseases, but puritan-types, who write our legislation, would be unwilling to legislate what libertarians recognize as pragmatic.

         Democrats protect the vulnerable by preventing Republicans from gutting social programs that most Americans want kept in place, as well as enhancing social protections such as by guaranteeing medical care for all. Democrats also recognize that employment by the government provides personal income, the same as does employment by private industry. Republicans seem to have have an odd, illogical perception that working for the government is inferior to working for private business

         You and I agree that many mass-murders are created by the insane. Therefore, I presume you also agree with me, that such insane people should be exempt from capital punishment. When it comes to capital punishment I am pro-life.

         I think most Americans of all political beliefs are concerned about the current scandal with the IRS targeting certain political beliefs, and with the federal government spying on the Associated Press. What could be dumber than spying on the AP? I certainly hope that some very high-up people are fired by our President.

         The Gadsden Flag is totally obscure and meaningless to most Americans. It was only used on a few small boats before the Declaration of Independence. It was one of a number of flags with rattlesnake and the words “Don’t Tread On Me”, many of which preceded the Gadsden Flag, and all of which was based on a pro-British political cartoon of Ben Franklin’s from 1754 that was designed to get the colonies to unite with the UK in an effort against the French.

         As I have repeated posted at TOTS, I have no opinion on whether the Gadsden Flag should be allowed to fly at the NR Armory. But I am certain the government of the City of New Rochelle has the legal capicity to deny any group from flying the Gadsden Flag on any flagpole owned by the City of New Rochelle.

         The effort to raise the Gadsden Flag at NR Armory, appears to be a partisan effort by local Tea Party supporters. This implicitly connects NR Republicans with national Tea Party politicians. In doing so, it puts the scent of pepe le pew on supporters of preserving the Armory, which might be ok with local Republicans, but damages efforts to preserve NR Armory.

         So let me ask you, which is more important? Actually preserving the Armory? Or, alternatively, closing the Armory while making an issue of the Gadsden Flag, ignored by most voters in NR, but perhaps popular in the nation-wide conservative press and Fox News?

      2. Let’s discuss the NR Armory & Gadsden Flag
         I will stick with the Armory issue and you are dead wrong on your presumptions. Let me state for the record saving and reuse of the Armory is my paramount goal. That said it is the city administration and the democratic majority who made this a national issue.

         Associating the tea party with those trying to save the Armory is futile. Co-chairman, Ron Tocci, a long serving democratic NYS assemblyman whose family helped many get jobs through the construction unions, past co-chairperson Linda Levine, a former liberal democratic NR councilperson, John Verni, a moderate republican. Michael Brown, a liberal of many parties these are but a few of the grassroots supporters attempting to help save the Armory. Would you consider any of them tea party supporters or tea party material? Even Mayor Bramson was quoted as saying he prefrred adaptive reuse of the Armory. Many believe that was a smokescreen but you have more experience with Bramson.

         Now, let’s review the facts as they occured. The Veterans received permission to retire the flag in front of the Armory. In the process they raised the Gadsden Flag and objections were registered with the city manager who, is charged with the day-to-day operations of the city under the NR City Charter. The city manager sent an email to the veterans advising of the complaints because of the association with the tea party and ordered the Gadsden Flag removed. The Veterans responed with the history of the Gadsden Flag and the city manger said he would sleep on it. After digesting all information the city manager informed the veterans that the Gadsden Flag could remain. Then there was an unofficial and illegal vote of city council, propted by councilman Rice directing the city manager to have city employees remove the Gadsden Flag. The veterans were present when the Gadsden Flag was removed to take posession of their property and the city workers handed the Gadsden Fleg to the veterans who folded the Gadsden Flag appropriaatey. Then the city employees confiscated the Gadsden Flag from the veterans and informed them they could pick it up at city hall. Before you challenge my account there are emails and video supporting the what I have listed.

         Originally three members of council found the flag offensive (Bramson, Rice & Fertel)and one raised the question of permission (Rackman) and two (Trangucci & Tarantino) supportd leaving the flag. Ms. Rackman blew her position when she attempted to draw a parrell between the Gadsden Flag and the Rainbow Coalition Flag which was aburd. The official vote of council was 5-2, along party lines, to remove the Gadsden Flag.

         FYI, the snake still flies on naval ships today. But the reality is that the city manager was over ruled on a day-to-day operations decision. The city council, who over ruled the city manager and is impowered as the legislative branch of the government, overstepped its authority by ordering the Gadsden Flag removed.

         If this was truly about permission, why didn’t the city council propose & pass legislation stating that any flag flown on city owned property requires city council approval? As you can see, this was a political move by Bramson & company that backfired on a national basis. It should get more interesting when the lawsuit is filed.

      3. Recent Developments
         Given the recent examples of actual “targeting” of groups with monikers like “Tea-Party” or “PATRIOT” – is it possible the Local Administration was following a similar direction which was perhaps “suggested” by higher ups?

      4. The Official Navy Jack Is Not the Obscure Gadsden Flag
         The Gadsden Flag was raised at the Armory, without permission of the City Council of New Rochelle. A right-wing think-tank was hired by the raisers of the Gadsden Flag, in preparation of a possible civil rights suit.

         As right-wing partisan politics can only weaken the non-partisan movement to preserve the Armory, the Gadsden Flag is counter-productive to preserving the Armory.

         The vast majority of NR Voters couldn’t care less about the obscure Gadsden Flag, and why would they?

         I can’t imagine how the Gadsden Flag can possibly benefit the movement to preserve the Armory. But it is quite obvious, that some people are trying to invent an issue regarding the Gadsden Flag, in hopes of getting political contributions from right wingers, far away in other states, via the national right-wing media including Fox News. Such political contributions would have little to do with preservation of the Armory, as donations would come due to right-wing infatuation with the Gadsden Flag icon and with other right-wing causes it symbolizes.

         Linda Levine, has never demonstrated any liberal tendencies. She didn’t even believe in Council Districting, something that benefits minorities, and lost her reelection bid with her anti-minority support of keeping City Council seats At-Large. I probably had as much to do as anyone, getting her kicked off the City Council in the 1991 elections, and I am quite proud of it.

         Ron Tocci had the exact opposite position as Linda Levine, regarding the 1991 City Charter referendum, and Ron, no doubt, was also hoping to see her lose the 1991 election. I doubt Ron will dispute what I have written about Linda Levine.

         I have no idea whether Linda Levine is supportive of the Tea Party, but it wouldn’t suprise me if she is. I know nothing of John Verni, and not much about Mike Brown other than he was a Democrat running as a Republican candidate for Mayor in 2007, and lost badly in that election.

         You appear to be saying that Ron Tocci, Linda Levine, John Verni and Mike Brown all think the Gadsden Flag should fly at the Armory. This surprises me, but I will leave it to them to deny it, or else for them to choose to let you brand them with that. Either way, that is their choice, and has no affect on me.

         I am liberal and have always supported preservation of the Armory (and of Ft Slocum), but see no reason for the Gadsden Flag to be involved in that issue, other than for Tea Party supporters to foolishly misuse it to sabotage preservation of the Armory. As I very much want to see the Armory preserved, I implore that the Gadsden Flag issue be dropped, so the focus can be on the Armory itself. I have repeatedly made myself clear on this.

         I do condemn a permanent confiscating of the Gadsden Flag, and assert that City Hall should hand it back to its owners. However, I see no reason for the Gadsden Flag to fly at the Armory.

         The rattlesnake “Don’t Tread On Me Flag” was created and used way before the existence of the obscure Gadsden Flag.

         The US Navy’s flag, the Navy Jack, has a rattlesnake with “Don’t Tread On Me Flag” on it. But the Navy Jack has a background of red and white stripes like Old Glory, and is absent the weird yellow background of the Gadsden Flag, let alone any affiliation with the Tea Party. The Navy Jack would be more appropriate to fly at the Naval Armory, but the NR City Council has every right legally to determine what flags, if any, fly at the Armory.

         Personally, I am quite satisfied if the only flag flying there is Old Glory.

         The lawsuit you wish to see filed, is guaranteed to be determined by Federal Courts, as without merit, if the basis of the legal action is claims of civil rights infringement. It didn’t help your cause, that the organization hired, mainly advocates placing religious symbols on public property. Your cause would have been far better off, hiring the secular ACLU.

         The Gadsden Flag doesn’t hurts Mayor Bramson in the slightest. If anything else, he benefits from that absurd issue. Bramson might be damaged by not preserving the Armory, and yet it is the Gadsden Flag issue that provides him cover, rather than causing him damage.

      5. Debate requires facts
         I can no longer continue what I thought was a debate as you continue to make unwarranted ASSumptions and false statements. Either the people informing you are misinformed or you don’t care to seek out the facts. I will give you two examples.

         FIRST, you state; “A right-wing think-tank was hired by the raisers of the Gadsden Flag, in preparation of a civil rights lawsuit”, FYI, that “think-tank” contacted the NR Veterans AFTER the story went viral (national) to offer their services, not as you claim. I challenge you to produce any evidence to the contrary.

         Second, you state; “You appear to be saying that Ron Tocci, Linda levine, John Verni and Michael Brown all think that the Gadsden Flag should fly at the Armory”. I never said or intimated that. I said that preservation and adaptive reuse of the Armory is paramount and I cited this group to illustrate bipartisan support to adaptively reuse the NR Armory.

         I have no knowledge of Ms. Levine’s 1991 campaign or your role in defeating her. I do however have first hand knowledge of Judge Susan Kettner’s failed attempt to become the District 1 council representative. You were clearly a major factor in her defeat despite campaigning on her behalf. I’ll give you a hint of what I refer to, [Pelham Road A&P].

         I find it interesting that you capitalize both the Gadsden Flag and Armory. If the NR city council had the same respect you show for both, New Rochelle wouldn’t find itself in the disgraced position its in.

         We can agree to disagree.

      6. My statements regarding
         My statements regarding anything to do with the Gadsden flag being raised at the NR Amory, is totally based on what I have read at TOTS and what I have Googled on the Net. I have not discussed these issues with anyone, except via Posts at TOTS. As far as I know, the Gadsden Flag is not a hot issue among NR Democrats or NR Voters, and its main area of discussion is here at TOTS

         From what I read at TOTS, I thought the raisers of the Gadsden Flag contacted the right-wing think tank for legal assistance. If it was the other way around, as you state, I am mistaken as to who contacted who.

         However, I’d be a bit surprised if the national right wing media found out about this story, all on their own, without anyone in New Rochelle contacting them about it. Why would the national right wing media be monitoring TOTS’ blogs and postings otherwise? Most of what I see at TOTS is local news that would be of no interest to the national media of any political philosophies.

         I appreciate your clarification regarding Ron Tocci, Linda Levine, John Verni and Michael Brown. Although it seemed likely that they were all for preserving the Armory, there was a strong implication in your wording that they were all supporters of raising the Gadsden Flag at the Armory, and I was seeking a clarification, confirmation or denial. It is a minor matter, but misunderstandings breed myths.

         As you know, I believe the Armory should be preserved, maintained, enhanced and publicly used.

         I also regularly advocate that City Yard should not be moved. It could not be located in a better place than where it has been for many decades. It could not be moved to a worse place than planned. I would like to see more citizen protests regarding City Yard.

         Susan Kettner loss in the 1st City Council District occurred because there was a shortage of Democratic District Leaders in the 1st City Council District, so she was short of help. I live in the 4th Council District, but spent much of that year, almost daily campaigning for Janet Jordan (now Janet Jordan Malone), for Family Court Judge, throughout Westchester, mostly outside of New Rochelle. Judge Malone won her primary by 75% and her general election by 60%.

         Hon Susan Kettner is our elected City Judge, a much better office than NR City Council, I think it best that we avoid discussions of her campaign for City Council in 2007. I also wish to avoid commenting on Councilman Lou Trangucci’s campaign in 2007, other than stating his predecessor was also Republican, who like Mr Trangucci in 2007, benefitted from a Council District gerrymandered to be the most Republican Council District in NR.

         I think you and I have had a reasonable discussion here at TOTS, regarding the Gadsden Flag and Armory. Personally, I think the Gadsden Flag issue diverts attention from more importantly preserving the Armory, and diverts public attention from other important local issues.

         What is your perspective on moving City Yard? For me, that is an issue of even greater concern than the Armory. I can’t imagine moving it to a less suitable place than near Beechwood, and uphill from draining into two Catholic cemeteries, one of which as a lake which will receive leeched garbage draining. The Beechwood location is also absent easy access for our garbage trucks to travel to and from the North End. Moving City Yard to Beechwood is an insult to the intelligence of the people living in New Rochelle.

         I can’t think of a better place for City Yard to be than its present location near the Sewage Treatment Plant, and with easy access to roads leading to the North End.

      7. Democrats gerrymandered for a Republican???
         I have one question about the gerymandering of District 1 as a republican district in 2007. NR democrats have had simple (4-3), super (5-2) and 6-1 majorities for over nearly 20 years so why would they gerrymander a district for a republican? Once again your “facts” are wrong as Councilman Trangucci’s predecessor, Councilman Michael Boyle, unseated Councilman Alex Eodice, a democrat incumbent, by wrandling minor party endorsement in a primary. At that time the district was a democratic majority registration.

         As far as the city yard is concerned, I understand wanting to develop waterfront property, but it must be highly commercial as no one I know would want to live next to a oversized public porta-potty. I get frustrated when the administration and Bramson inparticular state this is the worst place to have a city yard. When the city yard was constructed, most materials were delivered by barge so the current site was state-of-the-art for its day. I believe the yard should be moved alongside I-95 in the area condemned for Ikea. It should abut the current NYS facility and we could share maaterials lowering costs. This would also be strategic as 1/2 exit puts you in the south end and 3 blocks drive puts you in the north end. This will never happen for two reasons; one it makes sense and two Larchmont would rise up again.

      8. Redundancy Removed By Poster
         The website hiccupped and created the same posting twice. I have removed the redundancy here.

         The other copy of that posting remains above, and is entitled ‘1999 CD1 Election & Current City Yard Policies’, and its link is:

         http://www.newrochelletalk.com/content/what-ever-happened-united-we-stand-we-need-another-stint-boot-camp#comment-19383

      9. 1999 CD1 Election & Current City Yard Policies
         Our City Council was redistricted several times in the 2000’s.

         The gerrymandering of CD1 in 2007, was due to our Federal Courts determining our City Council districting. Our courts were involved primarly regarding CD3 and African-Americans, and perhaps also regarding Hispanics. CD1 was not the reason for that redistricting, but it was affected by it, resulting in CD1 being the most Republican of our 6 City Council Districts in 2007.

         On 2011, due to the latest census, our City Council was again redistricted. CD1 was designated to be a Council District capable of electing Hispanics. However, many of those Hispanics are citizens who were to young to vote in 2011. Among CD1’s citizens of voting age in 2011, there were many Republicans, resulting in Lou Trangucci being reelected. But those children who were 14 in 2011, will be old enough to vote in 2015, and it is quite possible an Hispanic will be elected to City Council from CD1.

         I wasn’t following NR Politics that closely in 1999, except for Mayor, and CD2 (which was my Council District until 2006 redistricting). So I had to look up the 1999 CD1 election in the records I keep of past Westchester elections. You are correct as to Mike Boyle unseating Alex Eodice in a very close election due to third party votes for Boyle.

         I have no idea as to the proportion of Republicans to Democrats in CD1 at that time, but assume that in 1999, CD1 had a greater percentage of Republicans than the other 5 Council Districts had. Are you aware of another CD in 1999 with a greater percentage of Republicans than CD1?

         IKEA had two plans for New Rochelle, one near Home Depot, and the other near City Park. I will presume you are referring to the one near City Park. Although I’d prefer City Yard staying where it is, I do think the location near City Park is better than Beechwood or near Home Depot.

         A serious issue near City Park, is whether that would be offensive to the large Black population living near there. On the other hand, moving City Yard to Beechwood is a serious insult to the Hispanics living near there. By leaving City Park at is present location, the only neighbors would be the people who moved to that neighborhood, already knowing City Yard had been there for many, many decades.

         Larchmont has a tiny population, and has no real influence on NR policies. Don’t be fooled by illusions that they have any influence on where City Yard is, other than issues of environmental concern.

         Barry Fertel told me, this week, that the plan from Beechwood, is to use the I-95 Exit near Home Depot, to travel to the other I-95 exit near Shop-rite, to get to the North End.

         If the IKEA site you refer to is their original planned location near Home Depot that is similar to the route Barry Fertel suggests. But wouldn’t that screw up all the commuters trying to use both NR I-95 Exits? I think that is quite impratical. There’s nothing that makes more sense than leaving City Yard where it is, especially because the LI Sound brings fresh air to the current site, and allows City Yard’s smells to escape to the LI Sound. By moving City Yard inland it will simply stink up downtown NR.

         Regarding City Yard, where you state Larchmont might rise up against City Yard remaining in its location, wouldn’t Pelham Manor rise up against moving City Yard near its border?

      10. Fertel incorrect once again
          Redistricting is required, by law every 10 years, based on census results and popuation shifts noted in census blocks. The majority party, NR Democrats, gerrymandered the districts and only a court order based on minorty disenfranchising African Americans in District 3 could change the NR Democrat’s political gerrymandering.

          Let’s not forget the NR Democrats refused to accept and meet Judge Briant’s court ordered redistricting levels in 2000 concerning reduced African American polulation in District 3. Any District 3 changes had to be signed off by Councilman Lopez in District 4 a Hispanic Minority Opportunity District at that time. Let’s also not forget that when you define CD 1 as being the most Republican of NR’s 6 districts you ignore the fact that CD 1 has a majority Democratic registration. It was the NR Democrat’s redistricting, based on the 2010 census, that resulted in changing District 1 into the Hispanic Minority Opportunity District.

          Any intervention by the Federal Courts is a direct result of a successful lawsuit(s) challenging the political gerrmandering by NR Democrats.

          While you are a registered Democrat I implore you not to accept what Democatic elected officials tell you. Don’t accept what they state at face value, especially Councilman Fertel, who has been incorrect many times and has little if any knowledge about the southern districts. When I referer to the city yard location in the City Park Ikea area I refer to city vehicles accessing I 95 directly, via the entrance along I 95 for the current NYS maintenance facility on I 95. For Fertel’s referenced I 95 access city vehicles would either have to travel down Beechwood to Main St. and down Main St. to I 95 to gain access to the North End or down Beechwood to Rockdale to Kings Highway to Main St. Either route will compound current congestion and increase maintenance & response times.
          Remember, the Devil’s in the details.

          While I believe our exchange productive, I take no ones opinion, statement or explanation at face value. I listen then gather facts that confirm or disprove the information I was afforded. I form my own opinion and carry water for no person or political party.

      11. Two Topics: City Yard and Past Council Redistricting
          Roberto Lopez was only elected in 2003, and had nothing to do with the redistricting following the 2000 census, that determined the boundaries or apportionment, by the NR City Council, of City Council Districts affecting the 2003 Elections. Councilmembers who voted on City Council boundaries for the 2003 election included Republicans Joe Fosina (CD4) and Michael Boyle (CD1). I don’t know how they voted.

          USDC Judge Charles L Brieant was dissatisfied with the Council Districts created by the NR City Council, and ordered redistricting for the 2007 elections. I believe it was the Court, not Roberto Lopez or the other Council Members, who were responsible for the Council redistricting that affected the 2007 Elections.

          I am unsure of the actual party registration numbers in NR Council Districts in 2007, but do believe that in 2007, CD1 had a greater percentage of Republicans than the other five Council Districts, although Democrats predominated, then and since, in all six Council Districts. Currently, it is CD2 which is the most Republican of all the Council Districts, with about 31.16% Republicans and 41.44% Democrats. City-wide, currently there are about 52.6% Democrats and 20.73% Republicans.

          I don’t tend to accept much at face value, especially when it comes to politics, and I often research facts. I am unsure what it is, that you believe I do accept at face value.

          As I understood Councilman Barry Fertel’s explanation, and perhaps I am assuming the details of his general explanation, garbage trucks will travel from Beechwood via Rockdale Ave to Kings Highway to Main St, getting on I-95 at Exit 15N near Home Depot. From there, the garbage trucks would travel on I-95 to Exit 16, getting on Garden St, under I-95, traveling on Cedar St to Raddison Plaza, to River St, to Palmer Ave, to Potter St, over I-95, and towards Pinebrook Blvd, all in order to reach the North End. Compare that to the easier, faster and cheaper current method of traveling from City Yard, to Stevenson Blvd to Palmer to Potter.

          It could be that Councilman Fertel was referring to our garbage trucks traveling from Beechwood directly to Main St, heading south to the I-95 entrance at Exit 15N, but that would even be a bigger mess than taking Rockdale/Kings Highway. Either way, I am quite sure he was referring to using I-95’s exits 15 & 16.

          Of course, once City Yard is moved to Beechwood, we cannot be sure what routes they might take. The trucks could simply travel on Main St from Beechwood to City Yard’s current location and get on Stevenson.

          My opinion is that the trucks are also likely to travel on Webster, either getting there via Main St, Jones St, or via 2nd St to Union Ave, to Webster. I believe the garbage trucks are also likely to travel on North Ave to get to the North End.

          Every possibility is unrealistic and will only increase traffic congestion in our city, long infamous for frustrating traffic congestion and overly-slow, inconvenient travel. I am fairly certain that moving City Yard to Beechwood, can only further damage our almost-catatonic downtown commerce.

      12. Brian WRONG again
          Brian, once again you are WRONG! I read the first paragraph of your response in reference to Councilman Lopez and the Civil Rights Lawsuit and you are WRONG!!!!!!! Follow this link; http://tinyurl.com/mms6akk
          You will see that the date of the lawsuit was December 10, 2003 and Roberto Lopez (elected in November, 2003) had to sign off on the final agreement which affected then District 4. This is why we can no longer have a debate. Debates are about opposing opinions based on facts. Once the facts are removed there is no debate. I appreciate the verve you have defending the democratic party and NR democrats but unfortunately the definition of verve is: CREATIVE enthusiasm. When you create misnomers and represent them as facts all validity to your opinion lost.

      13. Sussman
          What did you expect Tim. I can only hope to ingest the amount of drugs it would take to reach his state of delusion. Of course every one is entitled to his or her opinion. But after following his postings, it is so obvious that he is a starry eyed follower of his liberal idols, and doesn’t check his facts. The man is a lemming.
          Now, I’m sure he will respond to this because people like him have to have the last word, for in hit mind it would give him validation.
          I do not intend to respond in kind, so I will concede his post as the last word. Its the least I can do to boost his ego as he sits at his computer trolling for subject matter to comment on.

      14. Rallies made Gadsden popular…
          The Gadsden Flag was made popular by being present at the numerous OCCUPY WALL ST. rallies and protests.

          Google that.

4. Nero, “fiddled while Rome burned.”
   Before anything can change, we must!

   As I read everyone’s rhetoric and blame games, I realize once again why New Rochelle is in the place and state it is in today. The paths and direction of The City of New Rochelle can’t continue on like this and survive. It has been going on for way too long. We are looking at nothing new and it has been for like this for several years, Mayors, Councils and City Managers. It is time the people to pull together not separate because of minor differences. With strong growth, the status and state of Downtown New Rochelle can and will change. With the correct leadership and support, changes and improvements would and could be made over time. So far The City Council of New Rochelle has been very lax in fighting for what is right rather than political gain.

   The minority members of council don’t step up with the right challenges. They need to challenge the process as needed to get back on track, The roles of The Mayor, The City Manager and City Council are defined by the City Charter must be followed but aren’t. Referendums were voted on twice I believe in the 1980’s and in the 1990’s for a weak mayor form of government, yet we continue to be following a strong mayor path regularly.

   I think of two old stories or anecdotes that come to mind, they scream out a comparison of what is going on here in The City of New Rochelle and on The City Council. You read them and make your own comparisons and comments. I am sure they will be easy to come by and names can be placed accordingly.

   Nero, “fiddled while Rome burned.”

   In July of 64 A.D., a great fire ravaged Rome for six days, destroying 70 percent of the city and leaving half its population homeless. According to a well-known expression, Rome’s emperor at the time, the decadent and unpopular Nero, “fiddled while Rome burned.” The expression has a double meaning: Not only did Nero play music while his people suffered, but he was an ineffectual leader in a time of crisis. It’s been pretty easy to cast blame on Nero, who had many enemies and is remembered as one of history’s most sadistic and cruelest leaders—but there are a couple of problems with this story.

   The Emperor’s new clothes!

   A vain Emperor who cares for nothing except wearing and displaying clothes hires two swindlers who promise him the finest, best suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or “hopelessly stupid”. The Emperor’s ministers cannot see the clothing themselves, but pretend that they can for fear of appearing unfit for their positions and the Emperor does the same. Finally the swindlers report that the suit is finished, they mime dressing him and the Emperor marches in procession before his subjects. The townsfolk play along with the pretense not wanting to appear unfit for their positions or stupid. Then a child in the crowd, too young to understand the desirability of keeping up the pretense, blurts out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all and the cry is taken up by others. The Emperor cringes, suspecting the assertion is true, but continues the procession.

   We have to stop all the fairy tales and legends; they have become facts and realities. We need to put the energy into fixing what is and has been broken for far too long. Other cities around us have found ways to grow and prosper with the same set of factors in front of them.

   The dollar sales must stop. If we had a vibrant Armory that could bring people to the city to visit and shop, we could build off of that success and bring greater value to the Echo Bay area and have that vibrancy move into downtown. Peekskill, Yonkers and Port Chester have been successful at bringing people back to their downtowns and waterfronts being creative. Using Sports, The Arts, Entertainment and many different types of social events as a draw, then build on that as they have. Not build apartments and hope to fill them. What would all of the city owned property be worth then? For once let’s be the smart investors that reap the benefits of proper planning of our property. Then if developers want to buy land make them pay market rate.

   Just at thought for discussion, it may be time to reintroduce another referendum for the next election. While we are at it, we need to consider The City Manager Position become a voted position rather than appointed.

   For New Rochelle to remain a vibrant place to raise a family, find a job, and enjoy a rewarding life, we need some leadership with a coherent vision for growing our economy, for cutting government waste and inefficiency, and for making good on our commitment to seniors, children, and working parents. Sound familiar?

   “Common Sense for the Common Good”.

   1. We Need an Executive Mayor & No At-Large Council Members
      Bob McCaffrey, I often agree with you, but need to correct a factual statement you made.

      New Rochelle has had a ‘Weak Mayor’ form of government since 1933. Prior to that, the Mayor ran New Rochelle, and there were no City Managers.

      New Rochelle had two referendums for ‘Strong Mayor’ in the 1990s, and also another referendum in the 1990’s to determine how many City Council Districts there would be, following the failed first ‘Strong Mayor’ referendum. These three referendums originated with a Mayor’s Commission and with City Council legislation.

      There was a citizen’s petition in the 1980’s, regarding a referendum for ‘Strong Mayor’, but it failed to result in a referendum due to an error of the City Clerk at that time. So there actually was no mayorality referendum in the 1980’s.

      I disdain the vague, colorful phrase ‘Strong Mayor’ and prefer the more accurate description of ‘Executive Mayor’. We do need to replace appointed government with elected government, especially regarding the chief executive who runs New Rochelle. His/her title can be anything, including Mayor or City Manager, but if we were to elect our City Manager, we should eliminate entirely, the office of Mayor. I think it makes more sense to have a Mayor but to make him chief executive while also removing that office from the City Council, so as to enhance balance of powers.

      We also need to eliminate At-Large City Council Members, so that the City Council Members each represent individual City Council Districts. That is why an Executive Mayor should not be on the City Council.

      Other than that, I entirely agree with your Post ‘Nero, “fiddled while Rome burned”‘.

      1. It is not just the acts of a fiddler and tailor!
         Brian,
         You are correct and thanks for catching my brain fart. I wrote it wrong. Spell check doesn’t work on the brain yet. If it did, maybe we would not have so much of the crazy rhetoric I wrote about. I said that I believe that there were votes because I did not have the exact details, so thanks for the correction and information update.

         I also don’t like the use of the phrase ‘Strong Mayor’ and prefer the description of ‘Executive Mayor’. How about just “The Mayor”! We do need to replace appointed government with elected government, especially regarding the chief executive who runs New Rochelle. Regardless, we need to do something rather than watch and bicker on the sidelines. We need to stay focused on the problem and not the little stuff that pulls us apart and prevents true conversation about change. That is how they survive and gain strength, by feeding on our weakness. It is time for some on council to insist on some music lessons; find a better fiddler and a new tailor. It is not just the acts of a fiddler and tailor, it is those around them that are and should be just as accountable. That was more my point.

         Yes, we should eliminate entirely, the office of Mayor or The City Manager. No need to pay two full time salaries for one full time position. It has shown that it doesn’t work for the people, look at where we are today. With the political changes that are in front of us, it might be a good time to light a fire under some butts and see what happens. Get something done in time for the next election in November.

         Does anyone have copies of the past referendums or know where to get a hold of them?

      2. History of 1980 Petition & 1990’s Referendums
         Bob McCaffrey – Thanks for your reply.

         I do have a copy of the 1980’s petition for a referendum to make the NR Mayor our chief executive.

         I believe I also have a copy of the 1991 referendum for Executive Mayor and to change the City Council from At-Large to Districting.

         Last year I promised Warren Gross to provide him with both. Likewise, I promised the same for Kotchumathen Babu. Unfortunately, I have lots of documents in my apartment, and have yet to find the petition or referendum. But I am sure I do have these. I will look again, and when found, will provide copies for you, Warren and Babu, as well as post the wordings on TOTS.

         The City Clerk’s office should really have copies of all of this, including the 1980’s petition, as that petition and three referendums were all filed with the NR City Clerk. Futhermore, the referendums were monitored and the votes counted by the NR City Clerk not by the Board of Elections.

         The wordings of the successful referendums (or successful parts, thereof) should also have ended up as wordings in our City Charter.

         I believe that the successful referendums, by law, would have had to be filed with the NYS Secretary of State. Any City Charter, City Code, NYS Statutes, etc, or their modifications, must be filed with the NYS Sec of State, in order to be enforceable in NY State. If there was a failure to file the modified City Charter with the NY Sec of State, it would mean that the City Council is to that extent, acting outside of NYS Law, which would also be a violation of the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution, pursuant to 42 USC 1983. That only relates to the parts of the referendums that resulted directly in modification of our City Charter.

         Other entities that should possess copies of the 1990’s referendums, and perhaps the 1980’s petition, are NR Library and the NR City Law Department, and Mayor Leonard Paduano.

         Also, for the 1991 Referendum, created by Mayor Paduano’s appointed Charter Commission, one might check the files of US Distict Court SDNY in White Plains, as I and Babu filed suit there, pursuant 42 USC 1983, to protect the original date set for that Referendum. We filed this pro se, and I provided the legal arguments on paper and orally. Charles L Brieant, Chief Administrative Judge, SDNY presided, in what I recall was two or three appearances. Charlene Indelicato, then NR Corporation Counsel, represented New Rochelle. That’s a second reason why the NR City Law Dept would have a copy of that referendum.

         Another party to this civil rights suit was the Westchester Board of Elections, so they probably also have a copy of the referendum, for but only because of that USDC action.

         One can try to contact then-Charter Commissioner, the incompetent (at best) Michael Amodio, who seemingly sabotaged his own referendum. After his failure, Mr Amodio quickly moved to White Plains, where the voters wisely rejected his bid for WP City Council. I presume he still resides in White Plains.

         Judge Brieant was very supportive of this lawsuit, very critical of Charlene Indelicato, and had initially ordered the postponed Referendum to be voted upon according to its original schedule, and had ordered the Westchester Board of Elections to monitor that referendum, despite the WBOE’s wish to keep completely unconnected to any local referendum.

         Michael Amodio who is a lawyer, should have but failed to) filed suit himself, but in NY Supreme Court). Amdoio feigned interest in my lawsuit, by regularly calling me to find out what was happening.

         When Amodio realized I was about to be successful in USDC, he suddenly rescheduled the referendum date, resulting in my suit losing standing in USDC. I found out about Amodio’s rescheduling, by reading of it in the Standard-Star. This was Amodio’s mysterious, incompetent or knowing, sabotage of the referendum. The rescheduled referendum resulted in a changed City Council from At-Large to Districting, but failed to support an Executive Mayor.

         The partial success of that referendum forced another referendum to occur to deal with a Districted City Council with the At-Large Mayor remaining on it.

5. Echo Bay
   Let’s face it, the Echo Bay development as presently proposed is a disaster for New Rochelle taxpayers. It is also anticipated to be an unsustainable project.

   Mud flats and a view towards an 80 foot tall Sewer Treatment plant will not help fill these buildings with tenants unless the price point of the rent is extremely low.

   Now on to the economics. A couple of million in one time funds to the City who is then responsible for paying off the $25,000,000 bond debt in the annual budget, which broke the tax cap for 2013 without this extra expense

   Plus a sweetheart tax abatement that pays below market PILOT to both the City and School District for 20 years.

   Where is the benefit to the taxpayers?

   1. How bout the taxpayer Monroe College dorm?
      Which we’ll be on the hook for if Monroe College leaves or is shut down. Every taxpayer in New Rochelle will get a hefty increase in on their property tax should Monroe go belly up or if they close up their New Rochelle buildings. Nice job IDA on completely defrauding your constituents.

6. Anonymous KKK writers and their Gobbledygook
   It is really remarkable that some of the comments below are infused with racist and bigoted references to the reality of the consumers who own or patronized the stores in our downtown. By making references such as “low income”, “uneducated”, Mexican” or “Ethnic” speaks volumes of the resentment and insecurity of the writers who provide no real suggestions on how they would envision a different downtown. I am not suggesting that I adhere to the Bramson view of development, I do not, and I note that Bramson is incapable of having a real world notion of what is appropriate downtown either, but please stop the ridiculous knee-jerk, room-temperature IQ commentary of blaming immigrants who I might suggest these anonymous & cowardly writers are descendants of immigrants who confronted similar racism and ethnocentric Gobbledygook. Provide real solutions to our problems and stop the infantile quarterbacking.

   1. progressives
      It’s not an immigrant problem, it’s a philosophical problem. My friend married an girl from Columbia. A few months back, she came home from a Hispanic Community Center, that’s supposed to help with the language, etc. It was a one hour video on the greatness of Obama. She’s also told on a weekly basis how she can get benefits from various agencies. This is not the American dream. I blame white liberals in power for corrupting unsuspecting people with goodies. I think people do get resentful when they see someone in a poor neighborhood with 5 babies and one on the way, when they can barely afford one. Again, I don’t blame that mom, I blame the people who encourage her to have more [votes] kids. If someone complains about this, they’re not racist, insecure, or bigoted. I think they have the wrong target. Start undoing the damage the left has done to immigrants, and there will be less resentment. It doesn’t help taxpayers, it certainly doesn’t help that poor mom, but it helps the wealthy senator from MA who feels really good about himself. This is much deeper than a liberal white mayor in a small town. It’s sad he supports those policies, as long as he’s surrounded by his own. Visiting the local Mexican restaurant with a fake, moronic smile doesn’t count.

      1. It’s Colombia
         Not sure which Hispanic Community Center you speak of, but at my last check most community centers get their funding from the County which is currently managed by a Republican. A video of Obama? Great fiction.

      2. yes, it’s Colombia
         Excuse me, I had too much liberal on mind (Columbia University). It would be the Hispanic Resource Center in Mamaroneck, NY. A 1 hour video on Barack Obama. I’m sure their excuse would be the historic nature or some junk, but it’s not fiction. I don’t know where they get their funding, but it’s wrong. I’m not like Brian, who where’s the Democrat hat, so everything D is great. I’ll have to repeat myself again: It’s not a Hispanic thing. 914-835-1512 is the HRC’s number.

      3. Civics & History vs Partisan Politics
         Perhaps willyrand hasn’t heard the about it, but Barack Obama is the President of the United States.

         Information about our President might well be about civics or history and have nothing to do with partisan politics.

         Keep in mind, Obama’s political career is already over, as he cannot again be elected President after completing two terms.

         What specifically is it about President Obama, that was stated at the Hispanic Resource Center, that you believe to be purely partisan politics?

      4. Redundant Comment
         My same comment posted twice, so I have removed the redundancy here.

      5. Overly-Redundant Comment
         My same comment has now posted thrice, so I have removed the redundancy here.

         it if repeats a fourth time, I’ll just leave that redundancy alone.

      6. Great fiction???????????????????????
         Is it really that hard to believe a community group or church would use its status to promote politics? Ever heard of ACORN? Ever heard of Jeremiah Wright? You gave me a good idea. If she’s willing, I’ll give her a small video camera to record the next event.

      7. Avoid Bigotry
         If someone complains about that, they are racist, bigoted, and too insecure to realize it.

         Considering that you are blaming ‘white’ liberals, isn’t that, itself, a racist stereotype you cast blame at? Are all liberals ‘white’, and if not, why are you only attacking the ‘white’ liberals?

         You cannot reasonably prove your allegations against ‘liberal’ governmental economic policy, while using your own racial or ethnic or religious bigotry, to prove your point. Our society is too enlightened to take bigoted arguments seriously.

         New Rochelle, in particular, has always been a welcoming community for immigrants, generally in the West End, where in the 1920’s Jews and Italian immigrants were moving in, replacing Irish and German immigrants who were moving on up to better neighborhoods.

         The American Dream is described on our Statue of Liberty as:

         “Give me your tired, your poor,
         Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
         The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
         Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
         I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

         Would you prefer that our Statue of Liberty’s inscription should state “Keep Out”?

      8. Columbia?
         What did she major in?

      9. typical liberal response
         I’d take an uneducated Colombian over one educated at Columbia any day of the week. Sorry I offended your people with the rest of my post. Happy Wykagyl to you.

      10. An Amazing Admission
          Willyrand wrote he prefers ignorant persons to educated persons. That says it all.

7. Bob McCaffrey, keep up the good work
   Bob McCaffrey, keep up the good work.

   Your analysis is accurate, sophisticated and appreciated.

   As you realize, it’s important to avoid personal attacks, nor to trivialize local issues by making them partisan.

   Rather, local issues should be discussed on their own merits, absent any connection to fondness or dislike of any organizations for the sake of falsely-perceived political gains.

   What is really at issue, as always, is the future of downtown New Rochelle, not some irrelevant, iconic flag-waving, nor organizations claiming to have a monopoly on patriotism, nor the future of any political parties or candidates for public office.

   What’s needed is greater citizen awareness and participation. Ultimately, it’s better to delay and question construction, rather than to blindly rush in to another expensive, self-destructive, ill-conceived debacle.

   1. their way or the highway
      I hear all this talk about the need for citizen participation, so when the citizens participate are they even given actual control over decisions? are we even being taken seriously? or our recommendations implemented?. The answer is NO The citizens to be heard meeting is just a pony show, the council is not even listening or paying attention, some of them even fall asleep while people are speaking. their minds are mostly made up by then. It has been their way or nothing for far too long. not only do we need participation but we need actual control over the decisions being made, not herded into pre-determined outcomes and made to feel like it was our doing.

      1. USA democracy is based on electing officials to make decisions
         In the American system of government, we have a representative democracy. That is to say, we elect persons to represent ourselves in legislative bodies. We do this for our federal, state, county and city governments.

         In the American system, in between elections, the voters and other persons (even non-citizens) can assemble, advocate, organize, speak or write in support of, or against, issues.

         However, at least since the founding of our great republic, Americans have never directly controlled the legislative processes of our government on a daily basis.

         Based on the governmental system in place since the American Revolution, it is unrealistic to believe the People are supposed to have “actual control over decisions” of our government. Instead, our governmental system throughout the USA, is to give the voters actual control, on election day only, as to who will represent ourselves and legislate.

         The reason our Founding Fathers created a representative government, is because direct democracy is impossible to accomplish when dealing with more than a few thousand people.

         The best we can do, between elections, is to convince our elected officials to do what we wish of them, but our only real power is on election day.

         The problem in New Rochelle, is that our American system of representative government, also expects that we can elect our governmental chief executives. Unfortunately, in New Rochelle, we have an un-American governmental system, where the chief executive (City Manager) is appointed rather than elected by voters. It is in that regard that the voters have absolutely no control of our city government at any time.

         We need to elect our city’s chief executive no matter what the title of that office. That’s where the focus should be, regarding voter control of our city government.

         But regarding our City Council, if a voter feels “herded into pre-determined outcomes and made to feel like it was our doing”, it could be that voter is part of the minority of voters who voted for others than their elected Councilmembers.

         But minorities have rights to assemble, advocate, organize, speak or write in support of, or against, issues at any time. Fortunately, the internet is a very democratic means of voicing opinions, and influencing the People and our governmental officials.

      2. democracy
         “USA democracy is based on electing officials to make decisions”

         It should only be base on making good decisions and not bad one’s

      3. Decisions Are Often Between a Rock and a Hard Place
         I and everyone else in the USA agree that the public officials we elect should make “good decisions and not bad ones”.

         Unfortunately, our public officials are human, and therefore make good and bad decisions.

         And, even our best and brightest public officials are often caught in the dilemma of a problem offering multiple possibilities, none of which is practically acceptable to most people. Therefore the voters must choose between ‘a rock and a hard place’.

         Most Americans are in awe of our Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson, writer of the Declaration of Independence, and James Madison, writer of the US Constitution, especially stand out. Jefferson wrote all men are created equal, yet owned slaves, some of who were his own children. Madison wrote our Constitution to make slavery legitimate. These were great men, but being human they ultimately were a source of our Civil War where more than 600,000 Americans died determining that the USA would eliminate slavery.

         And yet, England and Scotland outlawed Slavery in 1772, 4 years before our Revolution. The UK outlawed Slavery in 1833 thoughout its empire, 28 years before our Civil War began. Until 1865, American slaves would have been better off if our Revolution had never occurred.

         Voters, of all political philosphies, must often choose which issues are their priorities. A voter might vote for a preferred candidate, or against a detested candidate.

         In these times of extreme partisan bickering, voters often vote for one candidate or another based on Party affiliation. But the USA would be a better place with more cooperation between our major poltical parties. Personally, I like all the members of our City Council, and, and think they do try to work things out. In comparison, these days, legislators in DC and Albany always seem mired in obstruction and inaction.

         I long for the 1960’s when congress was in a golden age of beneficial, cooperative legislation. Except for foolishly permitting getting us into Vietnam, our 1960’s Congress was one of the most practical, moral Congresses we have had in the last 80 years.

8. This excellent analysis can not be disputed
   The Echo Bay proposal has become an embarrassment to the citizens of New Rochelle. If this is the kind of development that the City promotes, then we have to look more closely at all our elected leaders, especially those that have championed this development.

   This is an excellent and thorough analysis.

9. What To Do With The Armory?
   How about a Community Center? A place that might draw people from all over New Rochelle, the Sound Shore, and maybe even the Bronx.
   You could set it up as a kind of “County Center South”.
   I don’t think opera and off-off-Broadway shows are going to be a very big draw, especially if you’re looking at actually revitalizing New Rochelle, and that is what New Rochelle needs, right?
   How about inviting some national chains to the “Diamond” formed by Main St, Huguenot St, and North Ave.?
   Do we really need a half dozen dollar stores, and a half dozen Mexican restaurants in our downtown?
   It’s time to get some people in City Hall, who realize that there’s more New Rochelle left after you pass Kentucky Fried Chicken…

   1. Don’t Put Down Dollar Stores or Ethnic Restaurants
      There is nothing wrong, in itself, with New Rochelle having Dollar Stores, as they serve a vital function, and are are among New Rochelle’s providers of sales tax and income. Back when New Rochelle was thriving commercially, one of its economic backbones were the various 5&10 Cent Stores.

      It’s obnoxious and seemingly bigoted to put down local restaurants for being of Mexican or any other ethnicity. Attacking ethnicities for running local businesses is counter-productive to our local economy, and diminishes the quality of your analysis.

      1. No problem Sussman..
         Nobody is putting them down, but typically dollar stores and fried chicken spots usually categorize low income and uneducated. You don’t see them in Scarsdale or Larchmont. New Rochelle has been hijacked by Bramson and his cohorts. They would rather see filth and waste move in so they can take the money given to those people by the government. It’s all a giant scam by the liberals. They could care less about helping their “Supporters”.

      2. What is so liberal about New Rochelle’s government?
         New Rochelle is the second largest city in Westchester. Being a moderately sized city, NR has long had a citizenry ranging from poor to wealthy.

         Scarsdale and Larchmont are a very small town and village, and quite wealthy, as is Bronxville and Pelham Manor.

         Comparing Scarsdale/Larchmont to New Rochelle, is like comparing apples and oranges.

         A better comparison would be to Mt Vernon, almost as large as NR, or to Yonkers. New Rochelle looks pretty good in comparison.

         Education and wealth levels are usually determined by ones fate, as to a person’s parents’ education and wealth. It is unfair and elitist to diminish the humanity of the less fortunate. A well known example was the extremely wealthy Mitt Romney’s putting down 47% of Americans as worthless freeloaders. That obnoxious speech turned off a majority of Americans, resulting ironically with Romney only receiving 47% of the national vote.

         I have no idea why you blame Bramson. His ‘coherts’ are the large majority of New Rochelle’s voters who overwhelmingly voted for Bramson. I might add, its the especially educated, wealthy voters of the North End who usually have the best turnout and who voted mostly for Bramson.

         Poor and under-educated voters tend to have the lowest turnout. Poor people have no money to donate to politicians. If liberal public officials try to improve the poor and under-educated, there isn’t that much political payoff for those liberal politicians.

         Poor and under-educated voters tend to vote conservative, anyway. Just look at the very conservative, poor, under-educated, American ‘Deep South’.

         I have rarely seen anything liberal or conservative about politics in New Rochelle City Hall. If anything, the most liberal NR City Council were the Republican majority in the 1950-1960’s, who appointed a female City Manager, Betty Meagher in 1958, and our first Black Councilperson Joe Evans in 1965.

         Certainly, such projects as Forest Echo Bay, or the Avalons, or Capelli’s New Roc City, Trump and aborted North Ave projects are about corporations for profit, absent anything perceivable as liberal.

         Focusing on liberal or conservative is a misleading distraction, completely unrelated to the policies of NR City Hall.

         The NR entity that taxes the most, is the Board of Ed. Fortunately, NR offers a better public education than most municipalities in this county, state or nation. Those BOE taxes do provide one of the most important services a government can accomplish, which is to educate our youth.

         Really, what is so liberal about New Rochelle’s government?

      3. Where do I begin?
         Where do I begin? Comparing NR to Mt. Vernon or Yonkers is the typical NR Democratic BS. NR is a small city while Yonkers is a large city with different requirements like multiple libraries in Yonkers. Mt. Vernon, while a small city, is no comparison when you examine the statistics. NR bests Mt. Vernon in every category; education level, median income, family income, poverty rate etc. Just check out the municipality profiles at westchestergov.com from the 2010 census statistics. The only “fair” comparison is with White Plains and NR pales in comparison, basically NR is a White Plains wannabe. The problem is that White Plains achieved commercial development the right way. They had a long-term plan that began with infrastructure improvements to support commercial development. NR played catchup and developed without first improving infrastructure. White Plains NEVER gave anyone a 30-year tax abatement on top of sales tax on construction materials & mortgage recording tax abatements. NR can’t even get it’s waterfront development right turning a 26 acre development into a postage stamp 6 acre develop including Bramson’s hand picked fruit-stand that couldn’t get past the basic hurdle of preliminary financing.

         Now in reference to Noam Bramson being a “moderate” democrat; Agenda 21, GreeNR, sustainable development, sustainable communities, transit oriented development, backyard chicken coops, bike paths, corporate welfare, privatization, laying off firefighters and trying to break unions as witnessed with the police captains. Oh, and let’s not forget the refuse fee or removing the library from mandatory city charter funding. All accomplished by LIBERAL NR democrats. Contrary to his political propaganda, Mr. Sussman can’t change history. It is democrats like Mr. Sussman who must now change the stripes on a Liberal’s liberal, Noam Bramson, to a moderate in order to have a chance to win in November. If it walks, talks and governs like a liberal it is a liberal!

      4. New Rochelle is a Moderate-Sized City
         Of Westchester’s six cities, only Yonkers is larger than New Rochelle, which itself is slightly large larger than Mt Vernon, which is far larger than White Plains, which is larger than the two remaining Westchester cities.

         It certainly makes more sense to compare the city of New Rochelle, to the other Westchester cities.

         It makes no sense to compare a moderate sized city m such as New Rochelle, to a village or small town.

         Rye or Peekskill are small cities. New Rochelle is a moderate-sized city, the seventh largest city in NY State, and has more population that the largest cities in some states.

         Although White Plains has a much smaller population than New Rochelle, WP has much more commerce. Whtie Plains’ commerical advantages are due to two things:

         WP is the County Seat, with City, State and Federal Courts and associated offices and building.

         Downtown WP is near the center of most of Westchester’s parkways and interstates.

         Parkways near White Plains include Bronk River, Taconic, Hutchison River. and Sprain. Interstates near WP include Cross Westchester (I-287) and I-684. I-287 connects White Plains to I-95 near the CT/Westchester Border, the Sprain, I-684, the Hutch, Major Deagan (I-87) and the Tappen Zee Bridge. The Sprain, Taconic and I-684 connect White Plains to northern Westchester. Also, White Plains is easily accessible from New Rochelle’s North End via the Heathecote Bypass.

         In comparison, the only major highway close to downtown New Rochelle, is I-95, which connects NR to only several Westchester sound shore communities to CT, all on the opposite side of the Tolls, and to the Bronx. What downtown NR is lacking, is a direct connection between I-95 and either the Hutch of Cross Cty Pwky, despite the 1967 NR Development Plan to create such a junction.

         As to your criticizing Noam Bramson, are you upset with his policies simply because he is Noam or is a Democrat? Or is it his policies you are critical of, regardless of his name or political party?

         If it the policies that bother you, you can make your point clearer and more successfully, by criticizing the policies, not the person or party.

         But if it’s the person Noam Bramson, or the Democratic Party that’s your problem, you will not sufficiently convince enough people of your perspective, because in New Rochelle, the Democratic Party and Noam Bramson have repeatedly proven themselves very popular with the vast majority of voters in our city.

         Personally, I think much of what has occurred in City Hall, would happen no matter who is Mayor or which Party is in a majority on the City Council. That’s why I think your tying in Noam or the Democrats to NR City policies is misdirected and fruitless.

         It makes little difference if a New Rochelle Mayor is liberal, moderate or conservative, because the local government has little to do with such things.

         Liberal, moderate or conservative becomes more meaningful when applied to Albany or D.C.

         There is also the question of defining liberal, moderate or conservative. American politics, in general, moved far to the right (ie more conservative) in the period of apprx 1976-2008. So modern liberals tend to sound more like the moderates of the 1960’s, modern moderates tend to sound more like conservatives of the 1960’s, and modern conservatives tend to sound more like conservatives of 1912.

         You criticize Noam for ‘corporate welfare’, and ‘privatization’ and ‘breaking unions’. Corporate welfare, privatization and breaking unions are things conservatives advocate for.

         Liberals advocate welfare for people, not for corporations, and never advocate privatization of government services, or of breaking unions.

         Socialists advocate for ‘nationalization’ of corporate services, but that’s a rare perspective for liberals in the USA.

         Your argument and alleged facts if true, would tend to demonstrate that Noam is moderately conservative and not liberal at all. Despite that, I presume Noam to be liberal.

         Westchester voters are quite Democratic and liberal, so Noam has no fear of being called a liberal. That can only assure his election. Noam would have a more difficult election if he were called a conservative. I probably shouldn’t be revealing that reality here, our of fear Republicans might act accordingly. However, I am confident, that local conservatives will ignore and mock my analysis, although the election in November 2013, will prove me correct.

      5. That’s not the point…………….
         Other lower middle class (yes, sorry, New Rochelle is nothing more than a lower middle class town) towns have mixed ethic fruit and dollar stores and ethnic restaurants and remained vital, e.g., Port Chester and Mount Vernon.

         New Rochelle has not, Idoni and Bramson allowed the entire sewer that is New Rochelle to be comPLETEly taken over by ethnic fruit and dollar stores and ethnic restaurants. There is nothing else worthwhile in the sewer that is New Rochelle.

         The POINT, however, is that New Rochelle was ONCE the Queen City of the Sound, home to Bloomingdale’s and other grand stores in the manner of Eastchester, Larchmont, Mamaroneck, White Plains and even, dare I say it, some snooty cities to the North.

         New Rochelle in the 1950s and even the 1960s competed nicely with the likes of Bedford and Chappaqua. A trip ‘uptown’ to downtown New Rochelle was an event, looked upon with anticipation. Now one takes their life in their hands. Happily, there is nothing to buy on Main Street New Rochelle, so one can safely go to other towns to shop, which by the way is what the well-heeled denizens of the Trump and the Avalon and the North End do. Or did you think the rich of New Rochelle pushed and shoved in the fruit stores for 99 cent mangoes? Hah!

         So, after the glory days of downtown New Rochelle came Idoni (and his predecssors) and Bramson and in the interest of kickbacks and corruption, they gladly handed over the heart and soul of downtown New Rochelle and it has been a sewer for over thirty years. OVER THIRTY YEARS.

         Remember when Lord and Taylor wanted to come to New Rochelle? I can’t remember which crook was in office at the time, but there must have been a good reason Lord and Taylor went to Eastchester. And the rest is history. New Rochelle is a sewer. Always will be a sewer.

         New Rochelle is not even on a par with Mount Vernon and Port Chester, how sad is that?

         So, Brian, THAT is the point. Spare me your poor little immigrant defense, it doesn’t apply here. What does apply is the degradation of New Rochelle, the FORMER QUEEN CITY OF THE SOUND, and the crooks that allowed it.

         Now that Bramson will be moving on up, to the deluxe right hand of Idoni in the sky, will the good citizens of New Rochelle obey his orders and vote in his clone, so the further degradation of New Rochelle can continue?

         Well, will they??????????

         Again, Brian, THAT is the point.

      6. 1950’s and 1960’s
         So, what is your suggestion? What proposals can you come up with? Can you think strategically? You seem to dismiss the demograohics of 2013 America? Immigrants are our reality and that will not change. We need to adapt and provide solutions that cater to our new New Rochelle. It is not the Queen of the Sound anymore. Stop lamenting! Be constructive.

      7. Solutions
         I agree Martin. I remember a coach once said to the team, don’t complain unless you offer your idea on how to fix it. The complaints and whining stopped pretty quickly after that. New Rochelle needs leaders with some vision or at a minimum leaders who listen to people with a vision. The band-aid approach never works. We need a marketable identity and I still believe it should concentrate around the waterfront and our proximity to Manhattan. The Echo Bay project in its present form is ridiculous. It’s a front for Monroe college dorms and nothing more.

      8. Be constructive? You missed the point, along with Brian.
         Get constructive ideas past the crooks ensconced in City Hall for the past 30+ years?

         Surely you jest.

         If you aren’t jesting, I feel sorry for you.

         Many with more political savvy and patience for fools and crooks than I have tried for the last 30+ years, and failed.

         Relax your umbrage at the general attitude towards the poor little demographics of downtown New Rochelle, and see the bigger picture. The demographic is the result, City Hall is the cause. Go after City Hall if you want to castigate someone. Let me know how that works out for you.

         “…our new New Rochelle. It is not the Queen of the Sound anymore.”

         What a sad statement. In that one statement is everything that is wrong with New Rochelle.

         I wish you and the new New Rochelle well.

      9. Ok, and…….
         Still no suggestions. Still lamenting. Do something!

      10. DOA
          The Business Model of individual retail stores in an ‘downtown’ small city or village environment is dead. Look at Palmer Ave. in the elitist village of Larchmont for example. HALF of those stores are vacant w ‘For Rent/ Lease’ signs displayed. I was in Great Neck, LI last week where I Lived during 1990-91. That once thriving mecca of retail on Middle Neck Road that I remember also now has half of its storefronts vacant with the remaining proprietors crying for the ‘good old days’.

          Congress is currently voting on an internet sales tax bill this week. Why? Because this is what retail has morphed into. Website sales, Mega Malls & Outlet Centers and Big Box stores – this is retail today.

          The smart cities and towns would do well to attract and work with the industries of the future ie. nano-technology, bio-technology and sciences, health care technolgy and services – in order to transform downtown areas into thriving employment centers with these new industries as the hub and various support service businesses springing up to capitalize on the new opportunities presented.

          Those who are looking for the days of Fred Astaire tap dancing down Main Street with his tophat and cane after seeing a double feature at the RKO on Main Street will be waiting a long while…

      11. New Rochelle is of the wealthiest cities in the USA
          New Rochelle is one of the wealthiest cities in the USA. It’s almost certainly per capita the wealthiest city of the five in Westchester, and probably of all the cities in NY State.

          That’s why most of NR’s voters agree to increase their BOE taxes every year.

          The 1950’s Department stores you lament as having not moved to NR, or having gone out of business, did so when New Rochelle and Westchester were run by Republicans. I don’t how you can blame Bramson for events that occurred when he was a child, or not yet born.

          City Hall has been on automatic pilot for 50 years. City Hall has to throw out 5 decades of misconceptions, as to what will improve New Rochelle downtown commerce. City Hall has been on the wrong track all along, and it has nothing to do with the differences between Democrats and Republicans.

          One thing for sure, New Rochelle should not be increasing its population density with more residential building downtown.

          What NR has always needed is more and cheaper parking, and a much faster connection between the Hutch/Cross County Pkwys and downtown New Rochelle. All else is folly downtown, until that occurs.

      12. Echo Bay Petition
          Well Brian if you are against increasing population density, I would ask that you sign the petition demanding a rebid of the Echo Bay project. Take off you New Rochelle Democrat district leader hat and put on your New Rochelle resident hat.

          http://www.change.org/petitions/re-bid-echo-bay-development?utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

      13. I Am Nobody’s Toadie
          I will have to first read your link’s Petition. If there is nothing weird or partisan about it, I would gladly sign a petition against Forest Echo Bay, and demanding rebidding. In fact, I would prefer signing a petition advocating that our government completely avoid any large-scale residential development at all.

          Instead our government should focus on improving and developing commerce.

          That is consistent with everything I have written at TOTS, and consistent with everything I advocated for New Rochelle, in a variety of venues, since the late 1980’s.

          I have often advocated against Forest Echo Bay and similar follies, as well as advocated for preservation of the Armory, as well as against moving City Yard, as well as against raising taxes, at NR Democratic Committee meetings and on the streets of New Rochelle.

          I always put the betterment of New Rochelle and the USA ahead of politics or religion. I am basically an advocate for improved goverment and more commerce, and a supporter of small business free enterprise. I am nobody’s Toadie.

          I am surprised you would think otherwise.

      14. Echo Bay Petition
          Your correct! This petition has nothing to do with politics. The group that put it together is apolitical. Many of the founding members do have extensive backgrounds in finance. They have concluded that the project, as currently structured, does not make financial sense for the community. The Mayor has made accusations that their claims are misleading yet has refused to provide any numbers or data to validate the project.

          Please forward the link to others who would be interested in signing the petition.

          Thank you for taking the time to participate and help make a difference in New Rochelle.

      15. Brian, have you signed???
          Brian, have you signed the petition, it’s been 4 days??? Have you read the petition and what is your opinion. If you are truly not politically motivated this should be a no-brainer since it is backed by many Bramson supporters who realize a bad deal when they see it. Look at the names; not your usual cast of characters on both sides and notables on both sides, truly a representation of the entire city both politically and regionally.

          If,by chance, you have found anything you consider political or wierd identify it here!

      16. Echo Bay Petition
          Brian did indeed sign the petition. He did it the night the link was posted on this thread. Once again, thank you to Brian and all the other TOTS readers who have signed.

      17. Two petitions I’ve signed, that everyone should sign
          I signed the petition against the Forest Echo Bay folly on May 7, right after I wrote my post that you refer to.

          A few days later, I signed another petition at the same website, to protect Playland from the current harmful policy to destroy it.

          I ask everyone to sign the Playland petition, too.

          I believe many supporters of Noam are not necessarily supporters of the Forest Echo Bay plan. The Democratic Party is less monolithic, less single-minded, more varied in opinion, than the Republican Party appears to be.

          I believe most Democratic voters and Committee Members are ambivalent, or at most tolerant, of the Forest Echo Bay plan. I’ve heard very few Democrats advocating for it, but I have heard Democrats questioning it. Very few Democrats have ever considered voting for Richard St Paul for Mayor, or Rob Astorino for County Executive.

          Democratic voters vote for their candidates, for a variety of reasons, often ignoring policies disagreed on, because of other issues agreed upon.

          As an example, many Democrats are disappointed that President Obama’s ‘Obamacare’ is much too conservative, and many Democrats would have preferred a Single-Payer Health Care, similar to Canada’s. But Democrats are pragmatic enough to support candidates whose policy’s are superior to that of opposing candidates, in general elections, as well as in primaries.

          In comparison, Republicans, especially those of the Tea Party, tend to be non-pragamatic, and often jump at the chance to bite their nose off to spite their face. That self-destructive attitude caused the Republicans to lose seats in both houses of Congress in 2012. In New Rochelle, the Republicans damage their chances of protecting the Armory, by advocating causes that might be popular in South Carolina but that can’t possibly gain traction in New Rochelle, such as with their Gadsden Flag obsession.

      18. A simple yes or no would have sufficed
          A simple yes or no would have sufficed but as usual you take every opportunity to trash republicans. It is a bit disingenuous to ask people to be free thinkers and vote for the best qualified candidate then bash the loyal opposition at every turn. But as a district leader you are following the script handed you.

          Thanks for confirming that registered democrats are like mice following the Pied Piper into the ocean when you state, “democratic voters vote for their candidates”. This is why voter apathy is widespread. With a 2 to 1 registration advantage voters feel their vote doesn’t count. You champion the two party system but if voters just vote the party line the system is as dysfunctional as NYS politicians.

      19. Timknows – I’m sorry, I responded in error
          Timknows – I’m sorry, I was responding to something you wrote, which I misunderstood. You stated:

          “…since it is backed by many Bramson supporters who realize a bad deal when they see it”.

          I thought you had meant that many Democrats supported Forest Echo Bay despite realizing it was a bad deal, because they did support Bramson. I was in error as reading your posting as having that meaning.

          I now realize you were actually saying that many Bramson supporters signed the petition against Forest Echo Bay. In fact I am such a person, myself.

          I was thinking you were being partisan, which you were not, other than that you were critizing Noam’s support of Forest Echo Bay. I understand why you state I was disengenuous. It was I who was needlessly partisan, and I apologize for that, and of my criticism of your post.

          But now I find myself writing of political parties, so as to explain something you have since posted. You are mistaken in your pied piper interpretation. What I said is that Democrats vote for candidates based on support of a variety of issue, despite disfavor with the same candidate on some issues. I am not saying that the candidate voted for has to be a Democrat, which was your interpretation.

          On the other hand, I do think that Westchester Republican candidates deny themselves many Democratic and unaffiliated votes, by even implicitly associating with the Republican politicians of DC and Albany. It’s not so much about the metaphor of the Pied Piper, as the one of the Albatross around the neck.

          I agree with you as to voter apathy, and the seemingly impending death of the two party system in the USA. As much as Westchester Voters are likely to vote Democratic, Southern Voters are likely to vote Republican. It’s really the quagmire of indecision in the legislatures of DC and Albany that drive the voters into apathy. Also, NYS should reform its Election Law, to provide third parties a level playing field

      20. I stand by my statement
          Brian, I must stand by my pied piper statement as you state, “Democrats vote for candidates based on support of a variety of issue, despite disfavor with the same candidate on some issues.” If anyone looks close enough at their party’s candidate, they can find some issue to justify a party-line vote or one issue to vote against the loyal opposition. The electorate, in general, is uninformed and many if not most vote the party-line. I suggest that most don’t know what the current day party-line is. They rely on what they perceive the party-line to be when they were younger, more informed, more impressionable and more involved. The parties portray themselves in very general, national terms which has little impact on the local governments. In the end, it is nothing but political rhetoric.

      21. There Are No NR Democratic Committee ‘Party-Lines’
          Within the New Rochelle Democratic Committee, there is no ‘party-line’ of anything I know of. That is to say, a ‘party-line’ would have to specifically voted upon by the NR Democratic Committee in Meeting, with seven days advance notice of that vote. It would take a majority vote of the District Leaders. Without such a vote, the District Leaders would have no way to know what the so-called ‘party-line’ is. I believe there has been no votes on Democratic Committee policy in decades, if ever.

          Instead, what occurs, is that candidates for New Rochelle public office are voted upon upon during NR Democratic Committee ‘conventions’. Once nominated, let alone once elected, those candidates vote according to their own conscience, during their term of office. If, while in office, a Councilperson or Mayor supports policies unpopular with the District Leaders, the Democratic Committee could vote to nominate another candidate for the next election. But once nominated or elected, that candidate creates his/her own policies or supports policies of others, according to conscience.

          There is also the possibility, of am unnominated Democratic candidate being elected to office, by petitioning, perhaps via a primary. Once elected, that person would have the same standing with the Democratic Committee, as a nominated elected public official.

          Elected public officials who are Democrats, from Councilperson to Congressperson, speak to the NR Democratic Committee, to keep us informed of their policies. District Leaders comment and ask questions, and receive answers. But we do not vote on these policies.

          I must restate, NR Democratic District Leaders do not follow a ‘party-line’ because we have no known ‘party-line’ to follow.

          Pragmatically, every politician of any party, feels various pressures and influences, whatever those may be. But those aspects of politics depends on the individual analysis, morality, conscience, and political perspective of each candidate for office, and of each elected public official.

          Meanwhile, what really matters are the opinions and turnout of the voters. Voters don’t follow a ‘party-line’, but instead choose to elect their preferred public officals from the list of names they see at the polling place.

          I would be pleased to hear that the New Rochelle Republican Committee also has no official ‘party-line’ and that its District Leaders are as democratic and independent as the NR Democratic Committee.

          Throughout the USA, and also regarding Albany, voters are apathetic because the legislators are constipated by fears of lobbies, such as the NRA, Wall St, the religious right, etc. And in regards to national Republicans there is the fear of being ‘primaried’ by Tea Party candidates.

          I think in NR, the apathy is because the voters of NR no longer have a sense of community aside from their neighborhood and public schools. Mostly it’s the children who do have a sense of community but they don’t vote, and move away when they’re adults.

          What you think of as a pied piper effect of Westchester & New Rochelle Democratic and Unaffiated voters regularly voting Democratic, is not due to following a leader, but rather due to most local voters’ complete rejection of national Republican Party’s policies of anti-science, anti-immigration, anti-choice, anti-universal health care, anti-gun control, anti-women, anti-gay, anti-ethnic, anti-poor, anti-public education, as well as the GOP’s tendency to promote war and of mixing religion with politics.

          Those national GOP tendencies may play well in the Deep South, but are repulsive to most NR and Westchester voters.

          I realize those national GOP tendencies may (hopefully) be as repulsive to NR Republican District Leaders and voters, as to the rest of our local voters. But most local voters avoid voting for Republicans, because of the local Republican candidates seeming association with the obnoxious policies of Republicans in DC, and in the State governments.

          Rather than a majority of local voters following a pied piper, the voters are avoiding pepe le pew. Pepe le pew is an adorable character with good intentions, but never understands why the pussycats avoid his advances.

      22. Please be realistic
          I cannot argue with the pepe le pew theory but as far as there being no party line; let’s be realistic. What chance would a democratic candidate have if they presented being pro-life or pro-second amendment or for smaller government? You may counter these are national standards but these are the same standards presented locally. Even the fair-haired Boy Bramson has made party line statements in his first volley towards Astorino. The there’s the party line that democrats are protecting the poor, less fortunate or those who need it the most. How exactly are they protecting them? By making them reliant on government handouts to survive. I am not casting a wide net, as there are many people who need a hand up but a hand up takes for granted that once you’re on your feet you’re self sufficient again. We can either feed someone a meal of fish once or teach someone to fish making them self sufficient.

      23. Follow the pepe le pew theory trail
          My reply to Timknows was here, but this column width is too small, so I have moved the contents of this towards the top of this page.

          You can find that moved posting at the heading of
          ‘For Timknows – Further on Pepe Le Pew Theory’, and link of:

          http://www.newrochelletalk.com/content/what-ever-happened-united-we-stand-we-need-another-stint-boot-camp#comment-19363

      24. Of Mexican descent, Don’t want anymore Mexican restaurants.
          I am of Mexican descent and grew up on the west end, I am totally satisfied with my choices to eat the food of my parents culture, in fact even if the number of restaurants were to be cut by half we would still have enough to supply all of new Rochelle’s taco needs.

          What we want and need are places to shop that are worth shopping at. That’s why even the greater part of the Hispanic community doesn’t even shop in New Rochelle, there is nothing worth while to shop for.

          My family can be considered lower-middle class and we almost never shop in downtown, there is nothing there. Sure I frequent restaurants and bars in downtown but that is not enough to bring economic growth to new Rochelle, we need businesses that people WANT to go to that actually draws them there, we have an entire block of downtown just doing nothing, no economic activity going on whatsoever because a poorly planned development that never came.

          it should not be considered bigoted to state the obvious. people are so hyper sensitive, we have plenty of restaurants, nail and hair salons, and dollar stores. Main St needs to be more than Fordham rd north. we need to draw bigger business in, by creating the type of environment that is conducive to that. Giving sweetheart deals and tax breaks for developers in exchange for more residents which will not contribute substantially to our economic growth at the expense of the community services is not going to cut it.

      25. Como the llamas Huey?
          We are all for development. We are not for subtle racist editorializing that apparently misses your sense of raza. Too bad. Some of the commentary is intended to brand an ethnic group with denigrating stereotypes that you seem to adhere to unknowingly it seems. Too bad de nuevo.

      26. How so Martin?
          You read the heritage foundation’s report today regarding the influx of mexican and latino immigrants study. We’ll have a net loss of 6 trillion dollars from now until 50 years. Basically, it proves we’re screwed and the only way to stop our own destruction is to not legalize the 12 million illegal aliens here. I don’t see how it’s racist to say we don’t want mexican restaurants or more dollar stores. At some point the country becomes saturated and growth has to end. Eventually there’s just no more beds left for people to sleep in. New Rochelle is at the center of this epidemic and what you’re proposing will destroy this city. I respect how you are always an advocate for the latino community and I for one listen to most of your commentary regarding their deprivation within our city. There’s just a common sense approach we should follow going forward for me to continue to hold you in those regards.

      27. Who Are ‘We’ ?
          Can you provide us a link to the Heritage Foundation’s report? Although I have little respect for that organization’s opinions, I’d like to see their facts, which I presume are part of their report.

          All we have is your version of their report, which is vague. So I need to ask you some questions:

          Who is this ‘we’ that will allegedly lose 6 trillions dollars over the unpredictable next 50 years? Is this ‘we’, the government? Is this ‘we’ the the persons who are citizen of the USA?

          Or is this ‘we’, the the wealthy currently worth 10 million dollars or more?

          Are there not other, equally valid if not superior reports, originating outside of the Heritage Foundation, that demonstrate that immigration will continue to be the main source of America’s competitive spirit, inspiration, culture and wealth, as has been true since the first European colonists immigrated here in the 16th century?

          Obviously, the best solution to reducing illegal immigration, is to create a process to legalize the illegals, and to allow more people to immigrate legally.

          You say “I don’t see how it’s racist to say we don’t want mexican restaurants or more dollar stores.” With all apologies and due respect, that is because you are blind to what racism is.

          Actually America’s problem has never been too many immigrants. The USA’s main problem has always been too many bigots. In my 62 years, the USA has greatly improved in reducing bigoted laws and attitudes, and I am proud to have experienced this enlightened time period. But we must be aware of bigotry when it shows its ugliness, and vigilant to point it out to the naive.

          There is no such thing in the USA as being over-populated nationally. Perhaps in a few hundred years this could happen, but currently most of the area of the USA is quite rural, and there’s plenty of room for more people in this country.

          I do presume by saturated that you mean over-populated. I would be embarassed for you, if by ‘saturated’, you mean too many people of an ethnic type. If you are complaining about the saturation by some ethnic types, the best I can say to you is bueno suerte

      28. It’s not, OldTimerNR……..
          “I don’t see how it’s racist to say we don’t want mexican restaurants or more dollar stores.”

          It’s just a boondoggle – remember my story about Three Card Monty? – to deflect from the crooks in City Hall and their toadies and apologists on this board, and the citizens of New Rochelle who do nothing about the crooks in City Hall. Guess how many Mexican restaurants and dollar stores Scarsdale has? Exactly.

          Wait until Bramson moves up to sit at the right hand of Idoni and his chosen clone is forced into office by hizzoner!

          You thought New Rochelle was already at the bottom of the sewer and couldn’t go any lower.

          Wait. Just wait. Oh, and OldTimerNR, pay no attention to those toadies and alarmists and faux shouters of racism, they know not what they do.

      29. Heritage Report
          Yes, I read it thoroughly, as it is part of my job. I hope you have. It has been dismissed as erroneous and worthless by all members of Congress and all reputable organizations that are involved in the discussion of immigration. There is a press release from a both republicans and democrats dismissing this Heritage report. You know why? It has no facts and makes no links to any studies. Beware of sources that have no sources!!!!!! When you make claims like the Heritage folks you begin to look like Noam Bramson.

      30. good response
          Thank you Martin, that was a good and honest response. With good humor in it!!

      31. Author of Study on Immigrants’ I.Q. Leaves Heritage Foundation
          http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/10/author-of-study-on-immigrants-i-q-leaves-heritage-foundation/?hp

          “Jason Richwine, a senior policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation who argued in a graduate school dissertation that Hispanic immigrants were less intelligent than white Americans, resigned from his post with the foundation on Friday.”

          “Mr. Richwine was also the co-author of a Heritage Foundation study that criticized legislation in the Senate to overhaul the nation’s immigration laws, citing high economic costs. The analysis found that the legislation would cost taxpayers roughly $6.3 trillion over the next 50 years.”

          “The Heritage Foundation had already come under criticism from both Democrats and Republicans for the study on the costs of the immigration proposal, and news of Mr. Richwine’s outside writings further undercut the organization’s attempt to help shape the immigration debate from the outside.”

          “Racism and xenophobia have no place in the debate on immigration reform, period,” said Jose Antonio Vargas, the founder of Define American, a pro-immigration group. “I hope this is a lesson for all sides that what the public is looking for is a fair and honest debate on immigration reform, not long discredited racial theories designed divide us rather than unite us.”

10. Making sense makes no sense
    Making sense makes no sense to the leader of the .99cent New Rochelle Economy.
    Bramson goal is Higher office. It remains to be seen as he spews smoke at high rates to spin his electionganda…”Pay no attention to the facts just look at my lips.”
    New Roc City what is that? Bramson idea for advancing the .99cent economy.
    LeCount Place Bramson single handed blighting all part of his advancement of the .99cent economy.
    Trump Cappelli out of Character box of bricks half empty with no retail all part of the Bramson .99cent economy.
    2 avalons adding residential to an already dense area. Parking wars, under reporting of the students on the DEIS and who is footing the bills-John Q Tax Payer and the New Rochelle Schoold District. This is his vision and now he wants to leave to bring that vision to a higher office. ” ask not what New Rochelle is just see what I say it is.”
    Echo Bay is more of the same… County level is just a distraction till they cart out Nita Lowey his goal is to bring all this greatness to Congress.
    You can not make this stuff up..

Comments are closed.