Self-regulation is to regulation, what self-interest is to interest.
Timothy Geithner (in the spirit of what he said)
Last Tuesday night, December 16th, 2008 the Board of Education for the City School District of New Rochelle summoned its army of district and building administrators. The only other time you wold see so many district employees at a Board of Education Meeting is for tenure appointments. The Board of education did an outstanding job at fending off any would-be critics. Whenever an issue arises that puts political pressure on the Board of Education, filling the room with board supporters is a common and effective tactic is crushing any dissent and sends a clear message to any who would dare to disagree. If you disagree with the Board of Education, be careful not to step into their ring.
interesting post
interesting post
As a student I would just
As a student I would just like to say that I’m very ashamed of this whole over hyped ordeal.
New Rochelle High School is a great place to go school and probably one of the best public schools in this state. I’m saddened to think so much time and energy is being wasted over 4 missing pages of oral sex in a book. I don’t agree with censorship, but I don’t agree with witch hunts either. Err is to human. A mistake was made, it’s being fixed. Let the board of ed move on to more important things like increasing diversity in honors classes, raising the rate graduation rate, and thousands of other things.
With progress in mind, I can believe that teachers aren’t constantly thinking about pages of a book that were ripped out almost 5 years ago.
I apologize for any grammar/spelling mistakes, it’s late and I’m not in school.
Norrell Edwards
It’s nice that you like your
It’s nice that you like your school but please explain by what criteria New Rochelle High School is one one of the best public schools in the state.
That seems a fairly grandiose statement for a school with below average academic performance and graduation rate.
I believe New Rochelle High
I believe New Rochelle High School just won best place to raise your children for 2009, unless the school paper is lying to me. There was alot of emphasis put on the education system in New Rochelle. If New Rochelle is the best place to raise your kids for the second year in a row, I would risk believing that it is one of the best public schools in New York State.
In what way was “alot of
In what way was “alot of emphasis put on the education system”?
Neither of these replies are responsive to my question – by what criteria do we judge a school district?
HINT: the NYS Report Card reports test scores and school violence.
It is a shame that you don’t
It is a shame that you don’t understand my statement “….probably one of the best public schools in New York State.” When I say best I am not only considering school testing, but all aspects of the school. New Rochelle offers opportunities. Those kids who aren’t passing regents exams have many avenues of help to turn to, but sometimes they do not. I don’t blame the district for this. Not only do many of the extra-curriculer clubs and honor societys offer tutoring but other programs set up by the school do too. At a certain point the school can not force kids to do better for themselves.
Further more New Rochelle is one of the largest public schools in this state. I am very interested to know of a public school in New York as large and as economically diverse as New Rochelle that maintains better test scores. If there are any, they are probably very few in number. As I’m sure you know New Rochelle offers a large range of advanced placement courses, clubs, sports, a good special education program, a great arts program and other programs that I probably do not know of. All of these things combined, I feel, make New Rochelle a great school. All those other schools who are ranked above us in terms of academics, I wonder how many of them have a minority percentage of nearly or over 50%? How many of those schools are offering minorities, the majority who are probably in low middle class to low economic standing, an education with over 20 college level courses and a large range of electives? Very few. At the end of the day those schools probably have less kids and parents with more money.
Unfortunately at New Rochelle High shcool, not enough minorities utilize this opportunity, but hopefully in time that can be fixed. The importance lies in the fact that the opportunity is there. Don’t get me wrong, New Rochelle has it’s problems but it is still a very good school. Ultimately you agree also, because your son still goes to this school and it’s not bad enough to send him somewhere else.
Finally my proof is not only in a magazine but it is my experience and New Rochelle high school itself. I only mentioned the magazine because I would think that winning such a title would prove that others also believe New Rochelle High school to be a very good school.
It seems to me we have very different ideas of what makes a school district good.
How can I understand what
How can I understand what you mean if you do not give any definition of the term or state any criteria by which you label a school “great”?
Now that you have elaborated, let me ask you to point out a single example of where I said that New Rochelle was not a “good” school? You cannot because I have never said that. You have confused legitimate criticism of the school district with an extrapolation of that criticism to mean there is NOTHING good about New Rochelle schools.
You wrote “Don’t get me wrong, New Rochelle has it’s problems but it is still a very good school.” Really? By every indication you dispute ANY criticism of New Rochelle Schools and complain about anyone who makes any criticism.
I believe there are plenty of good things about New Rochelle schools. There are many fine teachers and programs. The district, however, engages in nothing but propaganda; never acknowledging ANY problems unless they get a 2 x 4 up to the side of the head. If you cared to study the matter, you might find is that school officials are so committed to the idea that EVERYTHING is great at New Rochelle schools that they are willing to fabricate records, commit fraud, lie to the press and public and otherwise cheat to present New Rochelle as a bastion of educational excellence and racial harmony.
Since you are anonymous I can’t really judge much about you but it sure sounds like you are someone who attends or attended New Rochelle schools. So, let me take a wild guess; you are…
– White
– English is the dominate language of household.
– Your family is/was affluent
– Your parents were well-educated.
– You live in a house not an apartment.
– The house is in the North End of New Rochelle.
– You live in a nice neighborhood.
– You live or lived in a neighborhood where UPS leaves packages at your doorstep if you are not home.
– You are or were heavily involved in extra-curricular activities in the school
– If you were there since it was built, you eat lunch in the new wing.
– You plan on attending or did attend a prestigious four year college, maybe even an Ivy league school.
How am I doing so far?
Of course, for students like this they LOVE New Rochelle High School. All the good things about the school system are aimed at supporting students like this in their ambition to do well in school, go on to a good college and have a successful, happy life.
You might find things a bit different if you were black or hispanic, lived on the South End, you grew up in a small apartment or subsidized housing, you were being raised by a single-parent or a guardian, your birth-parents were not well-educated.
As was pointed at the recent board meeting, less than 50% of hispanic students in New Rochelle graduate within 4 years. As Mr. Conetta admitted, there are no specific programs in place to address that problem.
I suppose you don’t believe that there are gangs operating in the schools either? Or that these gangs operating in the schools are largely minority students who prey on other minority students. Or that if New Rochelle High School reported the ACTUAL number of violent and disruptive incidents at the school, the high school would be classified as an “unsafe school” by New York State.
You are showing your true colors when you write:
“New Rochelle offers opportunities. Those kids who aren’t passing regents exams have many avenues of help to turn to, but sometimes they do not. I don’t blame the district for this. Not only do many of the extra-curriculer clubs and honor societys offer tutoring but other programs set up by the school do too. At a certain point the school can not force kids to do better for themselves.”
Is this your way of admitting that minority students are NOT succeeding at NRHS? If you don’t blame the district then who are you blaming? The students? The parents?
You wrote:
“New Rochelle offers a large range of advanced placement courses, clubs, sports, a good special education program, a great arts program and other programs that I probably do not know of. All of these things combined, I feel, make New Rochelle a great school.
NRHS is 37% white yet 90% of the top performing students are white. What is the racial and ethnic breakdown in the AP courses you are talking about? How about the millions spent on the new wing for the PAVE program? What is the racial and ethnic breakdown there? I think you will find that PAVE, the students who eat lunch in the new wing, the top performers in academics are disproportionately white.
You wrote:
“All those other schools who are ranked above us in terms of academics I wonder how many of them have a minority percentage of nearly or over 50%? How many of those schools are offering minorities, the majority who are probably in low middle class to low economic standing, an education with over 20 college level courses and a large range of electives? Very few. At the end of the day those schools probably have less kids and parents with more money.”
If you break down the performance of students by racial and ethnic classification you are going to find that the white students significantly raise the average for the school district. Same for North End v. South End students. You will also find highly suspect standardized test scores for minority students, especially in South End schools.
You wrote:
“Unfortunately at New Rochelle High school, not enough minorities utilize this opportunity, but hopefully in time that can be fixed. The importance lies in the fact that the opportunity is there.”
The low performance of black/African-American students in New Rochelle has been a constant since the 1930s. The large hispanic population is relatively new to New Rochelle but the performance has only been slightly better over the past two decades. How long do you think “minority” students should wait until “hopefully” the problem can be “fixed”. And what exactly do you mean by “fixed”? It sounds like the only “problem” in New Rochelle is that minority students are not sufficiently motivated to “utilize” the opportunities in New Rochelle. Sounds like you think the problem is these students are “lazy”.
I wonder if you have event the slightest conception of just how racist and ethnically insensitive you sound.
No wonder you posted anonymously.
First i would like to say
First i would like to say that I put my name at the
end of my first comment, NORRELL EDWARDS. I did not put at the end of the other posts because I forgot to and I hoped that you would assume that I was the same person replying.
Second off your profile of me was VERY WRONG. Ask your son if he knows who Norrell Edwards is, better yet look for me in the ALMS yearbook. I am the minority of which we are speaking of. I am an african american girl who happens to live very close to the not so pleasant middle of New Rochelle. I grew up in Carington Arms apartment building on Lincoln avenue, which is only a few short blocks from the projects. I am on free or reduced lunch because my mother is a single working parent and my father is out of the picture. Also my mother was a high school drop out and later got her GED and went to Iona College. I do eat in the new wing because its the only “class” in which I could go to my locker. Freshman and sophmore year I ate in the old wing cafeteria. I plan on attending a school that will pay for me to go there because I cant afford to pay for it, but I want to continue my education with out debt.
I’m wondering right now if you’re telling me I’m racist against my fellow minorities. I still believe that New Rochelle High school offers opportunities and I’m glad I took advantage of them. I’m not saying its laziness that is keeping minorities from improving themselves but an aspect of life that is much bigger than just this one school district. ALL over our country minorities aren’t doing that well. It’s not just New Rochelle practicing neglect. I’m not sure what it will take to motivate minorities more, maybe it will be the inspiration of a black president, but I’m saying that New Rochelle offers more opportunites to minorities than most. Also I know that you don’t think New Rochelle is completely terrible because as I said before you’re still living here.
Finally what point are you trying to make? We both know that minorities aren’t scoring the best test scors or filling up all the ap classes. I probably know about the latter better than you. I’m saying the fact that minorities have a chance at a great education is what is important. Where you seem to be focusing on what minorities aren’t accomplishing. As an optomist I’m hoping for change. Also I feel that considering the low performance of African Americans since the 30’s isn’t such a good idea since it took until the 60’s to integrate schools so that African Americans could have the opportunity of having an education equivalent to their caucasian counterparts. For most african american women who were educated in the 30’s the only jobs really open to them were nursing, teaching, and being a secretary. My grandmother was a nurse’s attendant at Sound Shore. My mother was one of the first black kids to be integrated into Ward School, instead of continuing at Lincoln school. Look at the improvement she made upon my grandmother, being the first woman to attend college. I don’t think the last two decades is enough time for minority students to complete significant changes. I’m not saying minorities should wait, I’m saying they should be active. I’m blaming society because clearly as a whole are values are displaced, specifically American society. The american dream is to be famous. I’m hoping across the nation more emphasis can be put on education especially for minorities, and that more minorty parents will press upon their children the importance of education. This is not something that can change in a few decades, but in a few generations.
Also all these other scandalous politics involved at NRHS I’m sure there are some, but clearly they aren’t keeping the school from being a great school. There are politics in everything.
Finally I hope i’ve covered everything and that now you have the slightest conception of the statement, ” Never assume, it makes an ass out of you and me.”
An unregistered, anonymous
An unregistered, anonymous commenter on the web can claim to be whatever they want or whoever they want which is why, although people are able to comment on this without personally identifying themselves, they have zero credibility when they makes “appeals to authority” as you have attempted to do here. You are now making all sorts of claims about yourself – none of which can be independently verified – as a means of responding to an argument.
Let me know if you decide to stand up and be counted or want to continue taking potshots from behind of wall of anonymity.
In the meantime, you might do well to consider that it certainly is possible to be racist or make racist statements even with regard to people of the same race. Racism in its simplest terms is holding a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities. You have made numerous statements about the traits and capacities of black and hispanic students in New Rochelle -among them that “they” are too lazy to take advantage of all the opportunities New Rochelle has to offer.
It is a fact that less than 50% of hispanic students in New Rochelle graduate from high school in four years. It is not a FACT but rather your racist opinion that the reason for this low graduation rate is a function of racial or ethnic traits or capacities.
So, to answer your question, a black or hispanic person can be racist against other blacks and hispanics as you have shown – if you are who you claim to be.
Let me know how you would
Let me know how you would like me to stand up and “be counted” and I surely will. I’m not hiding behind anonymity, I just don’t have an account on this website. It is unfortunate that you are STILL misinterpreting what i am saying. I never said that minorities are too lazy, that is what YOU said I said. I believe that minorities are not working up to their potential because of barriers based on history. I never said that minorities are not doing well because of inherent cultural traits. Minorities in this country are traditionally at the bottom, they make up the poorer class and the lower working class. What I am saying is it is not the easiest thing for minorities to just all of the sudden rise up and dominate the middle class. When a child comes from a family that doesn’t have a history of higher education in their family and their parents work long hours, what will help her to do better than her parents did? A good education. If the child isn’t getting a good education either, then what is going to inspire her to have a career instead of a job? what I am saying is the exact opposite of racism. Minorities can do anything if we as a people could only put our mind to it. Yes, I think the problem is outreach. I think that minority students don’t know they can do better than their parents, many of them want to live in the same subsidized housing as their parents forever. I’m not saying minorities are lazy, I’m saying their are deeply rooted pyschological barriers that need to be broken. It’s kindof like writers block. Of course I wouldn’t want you to misjudge me, as you have many times before, and think that I mean all minorities. There are many minorities doing well for themselves but they are not a large percentage out of the whole.
Finally why do you think caucasian students do so well? They, generally, come from an environment in which education and excellence has been pushed upon them. Or at the very least average excellence. Not to mention families with more money usually can insure a bettered education for their students. Where as 50 years ago, minority families, especially african american families were happy to just be gettinng by. The top wasn’t too high. Now as a people me need to utilize the fact that the sky is the limit. Let me also mention that the celebrity deam lifestyle isn’t helping to steer kids towards education. Finally back to my main point. New Rochelle High school offers the opportunity of a great education to minority students. I can’t afford to get a personal tutor for the SATs but atleast the school has a cheaper SAT program, at least there are all these great classes I can take. Atleast I can apply for a feee waiver to pay for my AP tests and college applications.
If my mother hadn’t of stressed education to me, and I had gone to a worse public school I would probably be applying for a job at target instead of applyling to college. Alot of the kids who didn’t graduate on time are students who didn’t care enough about school. I’m not talking about the students who retook regents over and over again and just couldn’t pass. I’m talking about those students who had 23’s in regent classes and that wasn’t because they were having a difficult time with the material, but just couldn’t bother to show up to class. Whose fault is that? Not the school but the students and the parents. Even if parents can’t afford to buy their kids tutors, I think they should be able to spare enough time to make sure their kids go to school and if they don’t punish them for it. Once again, I am saying that lack of minority graudating is a mixture of problems. The country as a whole doesn’t stress education enough, some of it is overcoming pyschological/economical/social barriers and welfare mentality. I think as a country we need to get our priorities in order.
Also honors tseparation starts early on, in New Rochelle, probably by 4th grade with Kaleidoscope, and it is in full effect by middle school If the majority minority children continually don’t score high enough to get into harder classes, what is going to make them work harder in highschool? That is why a focus on education is so important early on. Maybe the school district can comtemplate on how to create more minority programs for younger children, such as advanced reading clubs or something. Once kids come to highschool they are very set in their academic ways. You can not blame the high school for students who don’t care about education.
I’m curious to know how you would explain the low graduation rate of minoritiees. Are you going to say it’s the schools fault? What’s your great solution on how to fix this problem. If you haven’t got one, you should probably stop complaining.
still Norrell Edwards,
still Norrell Edwards, incase you were unsure:
Also about the school violence. Could you give me some evidence of all this extreme violence? Yea, there are gangs and yes there was just recently an incident. I’m wondering if there is so much violence kept undercover, how is it that you know about it?
Also I thought to help you out I would show you places where you assumed, were wrong, and showed your true colors:
“You might find things a bit different if you were black or hispanic, lived on the South End, you grew up in a small apartment or subsidized housing, you were being raised by a single-parent or a guardian, your birth-parents were not well-educated.”
I guess I wouldn’t find things too much different since that IS my sitatuion.
“How am I doing so far?” bad, very cold, terrible, in case I didn’t make things clearer before.
Just in case that wasn’t made clear enough in my last post.
“You wrote “Don’t get me wrong, New Rochelle has it’s problems but it is still a very good school.” Really? By every indication you dispute ANY criticism of New Rochelle Schools and complain about anyone who makes any criticism.”
Also wrong. How have i complained about anyone who makes any criticism. I have only complained about you in particular because my main point of my original post is that your complaints were focusing on something very insignificant, The book crisis, compared to other problems NRHS has. That is still my point. It seems to me you just enjoy complaining about the NRHS and dislike the fact that your criticms do not affect my bright opinion of New Rochelle Highschool. It’s probably one of the best public schools in new york state.
i checked, business week did
i checked, business week did name New Rochelle the best place to raise your kids
Your criteria is a magazine
Your criteria is a magazine article?
Dear Tara and Martha:
It is
Dear Tara and Martha:
It is lovely to read prose that is lovely to read. I’m so glad your dialogue has brought some light to this now-ridiculously over-discussed issue.
Someone at New Rochelle High School made a mistake. It happens. The thing is we’ve recognized we’ve made a mistake and we’re trying to correct it. That’s what happens in school, right. Mistakes and corrections.
Thank you, Tara, for being dedicated to learning.
Neal Shultz
Given a chance to speak…
Given a chance to speak your points clearly, to the very people you wanted to speak to, it’s amazing you (and your daughter) neglected it. Considering the three pages of notes you had, it couldn’t have been from lack of preparation.
Quite simply, you had a chance to say something and let it pass. You knew what to expect at a board meeting. Or were you expecting people to rally behind your cause, and let them fight the battle you incited?
I was disappointed, however, that you didn’t take the stand. The meeting was rather dull, it could have ended on a humorous note.
Stirring up the bees nest is one thing, but you also have to deal with the bees.
MP
“When your opponent takes
“When your opponent takes out a gun and shoots himself in the foot, there’s no need to fire back.”
That quote can be taken one
That quote can be taken one of two ways, I’m afraid. Either you are the opponent, or the eleven other people that did speak were the opponent.
If you are the opponent, your argument would have been your shot in the foot.
If they are the opponent, you believe they shot themselves in the foot somewhere along the line.
The former is unlikely, due to your sheer amount of pride. If you refer to the latter, you’re obviously delusional. To all spectators, even those against you, it was seen as weakness. If it was intended as a strategic retreat, it failed. Your opposition made their claims nearly unanimously, and it seemed as though you were too afraid to make your case. Do you know the title of the removed chapter in question? It was called “Checkmate”.
However, perhaps this quote was intended to make you the opponent, but on different terms. If option three is the case, you know as well as anyone that this case is over and you’re silence was the shot. All this from me is simply firing back. How very pathetic that sounds, considering.
However, I’m confident your skewed views led you to conclude along option two. If so, re-examine that paragraph.
MP
“When your opponent is
“When your opponent is self-destructing, get out of the way.”
Fairness
I tried to communicate to Tara Baltazar, who once was my student, about what I liked about her response to the slippery use of the passive voice, but your site was having problems yesterday. (You are right about something really important, by the way: After registering with you, my spam has quadrupled.) I urged her to be fair, given that New Rochelle administrators and supervisors have to attend to the concerns of a remarkably heterogeneous population, a population whose values are at odds with one another. A retired teacher (and not a resident of New Rochelle), I thought that perhaps one of my former students might listen to me. I certainly do not believe in expurgating texts, but I do believe in fairness. What has upset me so much is a campaign based on humiliation of people who, as Tara said, have often tried to do their best. I’m glad there were so many people at last night’s Board of Education meeting. Clearly, Mr. Cox has made his point. I’d like all talk of resignations to end. I’d like the residents of New Rochelle to listen to one another. I wish I’d heard more good will expressed in the last few weeks in a community in which I was proud to serve as a high school English teacher for thirty years.
Based on what I learned
Based on what I learned yesterday, it may well be that faculty were pressured by outside forces with the result that the pages were torn from the books. I believe they were wrong to have given in to these outside forces but someone above the faculty played a role in the discussions that led to the censorship of this book.
It did not just happen on its own. And the claim by Mr. Conetta that somehow no one knows what happened is ridiculous. Folks may not agree about much but they all seem to agree that this action was unprecedented in New Rochelle. It had never happened before, has never happened since and, if we are to believe what we heard last night, will never be allowed to happen again.
I listened with great interest last night to a number of valid points about the open and progressive nature of the literary education at NRHS. That has always been my experience which is what made this case so odd.
Those who are in such a rush to “move on” might do well to think about that for a moment. How can it be that such an unusual and unprecedented event took place, including a moment where faculty at NRHS actually sat down with dozens of books and began ripping out hundreds of pages from books and NO ONE can recall anything about why that happened and who was involved.
Puh-leeze
Mrs. Weissberg,
It is so
Mrs. Weissberg,
It is so wonderful to hear from you, even in this indirect capacity. I was wondering how you and Mr. Morrison were fairing. I spoke with Mr. McNamara last night and asked about the two of you.
And I agree, more good will and listening, plus the end of resignation talk.
After having closely followed this situation, which very much angered me when it was first reported, I’ve arrived at a moderate stance. I highly value my education at NRHS, especially that which I received from you, Mrs. Weissberg, and Mr. Morrison. I told Mr. McNamara at the meeting that your influence was life-changing.
Take care and all the best,
Tara
So board supporters are not supposed to attend meetings?
That’s a bizarre point of view from someone who is screaming about censorship.
RE: Citizens Be Concerned: Board of Education Meeting is no Pla
You idiot, this is wasting the city of new rochelle’s time. The hard working people of New Rochelle are sick and tired of this bob cox guy who feel he was wronged by the city. I hope everyone realizes he is not a homeowner in the city and pays no city taxes. The hard working people of the district want issues which are important to be the most important peices of board meeting agendas.
Board Meeting
The book flap should be finished. It did its job by exposing the district as essentially opaque and totallly disinterested in the resounding cry throughout society today for transparency. The Journal News article on December 17 gave physical evidence of the efforts of the district to carefully manipulate the audience to ensure the same tired voice; most of which have a vested interest in the status quo, are there to show the colors. Martin Daly once again hyperventilates and points to things not even brought up even in the most vitriolic of entries; teachers, for example, were not maligned; in fact they were praised, blah blah blah. Richard Organisciak still huffs and puffs about being the new kid in town — blah, blah, blah. Status quo ante.
Here is what is going to happen and some of it has already taken place. The City fathers recognize the need for hands-on participation and change. FUSE is going to have to actively collective bargain and pull back from activities and actions that are outside of that responsibility. Certain unqualified administrators and principals have been identified and most important, the board is seen as being in place for too long, out of touch, and not friendly to any adverse opinion. What I would suggest to Bob Cox is to hold a forum for viewpoints outside of the agenda control of the usual suspects. It would be easy to get the Journal News and other community papers to cover the findings. In any event, it is time for the anonymity nonsense to stop.
Times are a’changing for sure and the principles in this scenario are well aware of this. The recent Suozzi Report has been accepted and praised by David Paterson and we will see many outcomes out of this report. One may be the formal arranging of the school board to the city for oversight and transparency purposes. The big four cities as well as New York City take a more meaningful approach. We will have a property tax cap and likely a property tax circuit breaker on top of this. FUSE will be pushed beyond their long standing relationship with state legislators via the political contribution ploy and asked to provide givebacks and other concenssions through meaningful negotiations. Unfunded State mandates will be challenged. Student performance in New Rochelle will be revisited to determined why it has slipped to the degree it has and what corrective actions are necessary. This report will be required reading.
I am going to talk to my councilperson and strongly recommend that each councilperson appoint a liaison to their community on education — a sort of omsbudsperson if you will. I am going to suggest to Noam Bramson that he appoint an on-going representative with powers to propose, even intercede, where needed to break down the opacity so apparent in the district. The local omsbudspersons will meet with the mayoral appointee monthly to present issues, problems and concerns as well as recommended actions. I am further going to ask the mayor to “strongly urge” the board to read the Casey Report (on school board performance) as well as suggest to the appropriate department heads in Iona and College of New Rochelle, to do a “best practices” study re: what separates a great board from some other board. I am going to strongly urge Chuck Strome to insist that all senior district school personnel, from Superintendent on down, reside in New Rochelle so they can feel and experience what this great City is really all about.
Yes, Girl Interrupted has done its job and it is over. I would strongly advise all bloggers to keep on blogging. And, for those advocates of meaningful change; take up the banner for support. It is bad to be a “house mouse” — marine corps jargon for a system syncopant, but it is also bad to unfairly and personally malign members of the educational job family here. If the debate is less than above board, then we might as well sponsored some reality tv show and air it out that way.